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Old April 4, 2013, 11:59 PM   #1
justplainpossum
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My concern about carry permits (possibly unfounded)

I went in to my local police department for some field stripping lessons, and the officer was surprised that I didn't have a carry permit. He really recommended that I get one, even if I had no plans to carry (because if I needed to, I'd have it.)

Okay, I don't want to be alarmist (and this is Texas, so I probably don't have to worry), but does getting a carry permit put you on the radar, so to speak, of potential anti-gun legislation? If, for instance, they passed a law banning semi-auto handguns, I'd rather they not know about mine. Am I just being spooked by Conn. legislation?
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Old April 5, 2013, 12:10 AM   #2
JimmyR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justplainpossum
I went in to my local police department for some field stripping lessons, and the officer was surprised that I didn't have a carry permit. He really recommended that I get one, even if I had no plans to carry (because if I needed to, I'd have it.)

Okay, I don't want to be alarmist (and this is Texas, so I probably don't have to worry), but does getting a carry permit put you on the radar, so to speak, of potential anti-gun legislation? If, for instance, they passed a law banning semi-auto handguns, I'd rather they not know about mine. Am I just being spooked by Conn. legislation?
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, LEO, resident of Texas, or Fortune Teller. Any opinions and predictions heretofore made ain't worth crap.

That said, and correct me if I am wrong, but in TX your license states whether you passed the skills test with a revolver or a semi, since those who use semis can carry any gun, but those who pass with revolvers can only carry revolvers. It does in some ways implicate whether you may have a semi-autimatic, but I don't think that would be enough to establish probable cause to search for one. Guns can be borrowed, bought, and sold in a relatively short amount of time. I think the number of potential false positives of using the CP as an indicator of ownership of a semi-auto would end up negating the entire thing.

Cliff's notes version: No, it's not reliably accurate information.
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Old April 5, 2013, 12:57 AM   #3
DeadEye1911
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Texas CHL

I'm a Texas resident with a current CHL and I would recommend it to every Texan. I actually took the course with my mother and sister, two women who felt the need to exercise there 2nd Amendment rights. As far as who knows that you have a CHL, if you get pulled over while you're carrying, you have to show it to the officer. Otherwise, the info is not given to any legislative body or department unless you're in trouble with the law and they need it as part of their investigation. Also, all that will be known with your CHL, is that you have a license to carry. It is not known if you carry, when you carry, or what you carry, but only that you are licensed to carry IF you choose to. Your weapons are not listed or registered on your CHL. They have no more record of your gun purchases then anyone who buys a gun without a CHL. The Texas CHL doesn't list firearms, it's actually very similar to a driver's license in it's appearance, with the same info that's on your driver's license. IMHO, and as a fellow Texan, go get one brother while we still can. On a side note, our Governor Rick Perry is VERY pro CHL and offers reciprocity with every state, however not every state offers us theirs.
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Last edited by DeadEye1911; April 5, 2013 at 01:30 AM.
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Old April 5, 2013, 05:21 AM   #4
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justplainpossum
If, for instance, they passed a law banning semi-auto handguns, I'd rather they not know about mine.
So you'd rather just be a felon, rather than comply with the law? Is that what you're saying?
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Old April 5, 2013, 06:11 AM   #5
hardworker
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The permit says you have the right to carry a semi, not what type of guns you have.
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Old April 5, 2013, 06:51 AM   #6
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You just went to a police station to get them to teach you about your gun and NOW you are worried that if you got a CHL you would be on some list where they might know you had guns?

I think your concerns are misplaced.

Having a Texas CHL is about like being a card carrying good guy. The cops know it and most will treat you like that, in my experience, and my experience has involved meeting a lot of cops across Texas because I have a lead foot.
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Old April 5, 2013, 08:13 AM   #7
zincwarrior
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Quote:
I went in to my local police department for some field stripping lessons, and the officer was surprised that I didn't have a carry permit. He really recommended that I get one, even if I had no plans to carry (because if I needed to, I'd have it.)

Okay, I don't want to be alarmist (and this is Texas, so I probably don't have to worry), but does getting a carry permit put you on the radar, so to speak, of potential anti-gun legislation? If, for instance, they passed a law banning semi-auto handguns, I'd rather they not know about mine. Am I just being spooked by Conn. legislation?
(note have a CHL under Texas law)
What are you concerned about specifically?
-You're not registering firearms. Indeed you don't have to even own a firearm to get one.
-The CHL information is protected by specific statute against info release (like what happened in NY).
-The only information they are getting is a full set of fingerprints. But they already have your thumbprint with your TDL (and my prints are with the FBI so I don't care). Now I don't understand the purpose of that, but its not relevant to me as they don't need a warrant for that anyway.
-The Governor and many politicians have them. I'm not a fan of Perry, but if he's not particularly concerned I'm not either. Indeed, many folks in Austin got them, because you could bypass security checks at the statehouse.
-Heck, its legal Texas ID. Occasionally using it to surprise someone annoying who wants a second ID is fun.
-As others have noted, my wife has one. It was the direct recommendation of police officers she dealt with and our attorney due to a stalker that she (and I) procured one. We've been pulled over once since, and the only thing the police officer asked about was what type she had, how did she like shooting it, and if she'd recommend it to other women (we got off with a warning, excellent service Cedar Park!) ).


The only thing mildly annoying is the 10 hour class, which can be helpful but gets tiring. Fortunately our instructors both served barbeque for lunch. That makes the class go down much easier...

What else my man?
Also why did you go to the police to learn about field stripping lessons? More info on that please. I've never heard of that.

Last edited by zincwarrior; April 5, 2013 at 08:21 AM.
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:49 AM   #8
Glenn E. Meyer
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Get the CHL. The more folks that have such strengthen the argument for gun rights.

One argument against gun rights is that so few people get the permit, license, etc. that you can't make the case that someone will be able to save the day in a case like those in Colorado.

Also, guess what - if you posted on the Internet and it came to gun confiscation - you are in the list and the drones are coming.

Last if you do carry illegally and have to use the gun - given TX's ease of getting a permit - your story will be suspect even more if there is doubt in the shoot.
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Old April 5, 2013, 10:24 AM   #9
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I took a look at the TX CHL forms. I didn't even see a place to write down what you own. I suspect that TX is a lot like Arkansas on this issue, and if it is, here are some things to consider:
  1. Is there even a mechanism by which to register firearms? In Arkansas, I wouldn't be able to register a firearm even if I wanted to. There's no way to do it.
  2. Are you required to use your own gun for the CHL class? I doubt it. That being the case, even if you show up to the CHL class with a semi-auto, the gov't is welcome to presume that the pistol is yours, but it's just a presumption. I'm sure it's perfectly legal in TX to loan someone a pistol for their CHL class.
  3. Even if you do take a semi-auto to the CHL class, are they gonna write down the model and serial number? When I took my CHCL class, nobody did anything of the sort. The instructor didn't ask anyone, "Do you own that pistol?" Heck, he even brought a couple of extra semi-autos along for people to borrow from him. That way, everyone qualified with a semi-auto and could carry whatever they wanted.
I think you're just being spooked by the CT legislation. Mind you, I don't think that's entire unreasonable, either. However, I'd go ahead and get the CHL. That will allow you to carry, should you ever decide to do so, and I really don't think Texas will use that information to figure out who has semi-autos. Besides, can you imagine the manpower it would take to round all of those up . . . in TX?
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Old April 5, 2013, 10:41 AM   #10
zincwarrior
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1. Is there even a mechanism by which to register firearms? In Arkansas, I wouldn't be able to register a firearm even if I wanted to. There's no way to do it.
-No, at least not via the CHL.

2. Are you required to use your own gun for the CHL class? I doubt it. That being the case, even if you show up to the CHL class with a semi-auto, the gov't is welcome to presume that the pistol is yours, but it's just a presumption. I'm sure it's perfectly legal in TX to loan someone a pistol for their CHL class.
No, your e not required to use your own pistol, nor is any information about the pistol recorded. I've seen revolver shooters rent a semi just so they could have the option on the CHL.

3. Even if you do take a semi-auto to the CHL class, are they gonna write down the model and serial number? When I took my CHCL class, nobody did anything of the sort. The instructor didn't ask anyone, "Do you own that pistol?" Heck, he even brought a couple of extra semi-autos along for people to borrow from him. That way, everyone qualified with a semi-auto and could carry whatever they wanted.
You care correct. No information whatsoever is being recorded. You are given a license, not the firearm.
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Old April 5, 2013, 10:51 AM   #11
Spats McGee
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Thanks, zinc. That pretty much confirmed what I suspected.

Do you happen to know if there's a caliber requirement for the CHL? I thought some states had something like that, but in Arkansas, there's not one. IOW, you can qualify with a .22 LR semi-auto if you want, and then go carry whatever you want.
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Old April 5, 2013, 11:42 AM   #12
justplainpossum
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I had no intention of carrying illegally; I just was concerned about information being recorded and stored. Perhaps I didn't express my thoughts too well in the original post. Thank you for the responses! I think I'll go ahead and get my ccp.

Zinc, I went to the police station because I found my new Springfield XDM very hard to field strip (I'm a woman, and while the pulling the slide back is a cinch, pulling that slide back and HOLDING it there while getting the little button in the notch is really, really hard for me!) The policeman showed me some positions to try, and others here recommended that I try it with an empty magazine in, which I will.
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Old April 5, 2013, 12:13 PM   #13
zincwarrior
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Quote:
Thanks, zinc. That pretty much confirmed what I suspected.

Do you happen to know if there's a caliber requirement for the CHL? I thought some states had something like that, but in Arkansas, there's not one. IOW, you can qualify with a .22 LR semi-auto if you want, and then go carry whatever you want
***In Texas I believe its .32 or greater. I know .380ACP is acceptable. I’d love to qualify with a .22LR, but it’d be way too easy for the Texas test.

Quote:
Zinc, I went to the police station because I found my new Springfield XDM very hard to field strip (I'm a woman, and while the pulling the slide back is a cinch, pulling that slide back and HOLDING it there while getting the little button in the notch is really, really hard for me!) The policeman showed me some positions to try, and others here recommended that I try it with an empty magazine in, which I will.
***Cool. I didn’t know if there was a safety or basics class of some sort being taught by your local PD, which would have been interesting for my wife and I.
Again, I’d strongly recommend the CHL. Its relatively inexpensive, easy to get (unless you’re in Harris county), and becomes second nature. The wife and I feel naked without it.
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Old April 5, 2013, 12:15 PM   #14
ScottRiqui
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In Texas, you can carry whatever you like, caliber-wise, but you have to qualify with a .32 or higher:
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Old April 5, 2013, 12:25 PM   #15
WillyKern69
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another thing to consider....

Also If you qualify with SA (Semi-auto) you can carry a revolver or a semi-auto. you can not carry a semi-auto if you qualify with a revolver. Most classes encourage you to go the Semi-auto route so you have a choice. Plus that will save you from requalifiing if you want to go semi-auto.

WK
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Old April 5, 2013, 05:20 PM   #16
lcpiper
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Don't worry about justplainpossum guys. She is just a simple country girl from Texas and she is learning all she can from us as she goes along.

BTW, if I had to guess justplainpossum, your total Police force is something like 6 to 10 cops right? Just a small Texas town.

Oh, and Possum, did they show you that if you use your "off" hand to pull the slide back, (with an overhand grip over the slide), that once you get it back you can shift your thumb into the trigger guard and squeeze to hold it all in place ?


That might work if you can figure out my poor description.
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:14 PM   #17
justplainpossum
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lol Icpiper, how did you know?? Yep, 6-10 sounds just about right!
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Old April 6, 2013, 05:41 AM   #18
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I don't believe that it puts you on a radar. I think your local PD is just simply pro gun.

Personally, the more people that have their CCW license, especially in response to the current government feel good madness, the better off all of us are.

While New York, Colorado and Connecticut have passed anti gun laws, several other states are passing pro gun laws and it looks like any laws on the Federal level might be dead. I look at having a CCW license as a way to speak out against those who would steal your rights.
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Old April 6, 2013, 07:47 AM   #19
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IMHO, you have good concerns with invasion into your privacy.
Those who buy into arguments that there are advantages to having a carry permit are agreeing to infringement into our 2ndA rights.
But, to stay out of trouble, we may be forced to get a permit. In a large sense the antis have already won a big part of the battle against our freedoms.
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Old April 6, 2013, 09:56 AM   #20
DeadEye1911
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I believe there are advantages to having a carry permit, and not as a way to have my rights infringed but because I have a second amendment right to bear arms. It's not an infringement, it's an exercise of my rights. So as I see the advantages of carrying, I am NOT agreeing to it's infringement. If it was a means of infringement, wouldn't the anti gun folks be pushing for more carry? However, we see that they vehemently oppose carrying. So exercise your right to carry.
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Old April 6, 2013, 10:03 AM   #21
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This is the same argument I've heard from some as to not joining the NRA or other gun-rights organization. Or not attending gunshows, or not writing their reps regarding 2A rights.....
If you are that paranoid, maybe you should just make a larger tinfoil hat.
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Old April 6, 2013, 10:14 AM   #22
Skans
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Quote:
Am I just being spooked by Conn. legislation?
Yes, you're just being spooked.

If you've ever filled out a form 4473, you're on the radar anyway. Don't think they can find you??? guess again. I recall getting a notification that I had to register my USAS-12 many years ago. ATF probably required the manufacturers to send the notices out to the dealers who purchased them, and notify them to "pass it along". That's just my guess, but in any event, the notice found its way to my address. Remember, the USAS-12 was nothing more than an ordinary shotgun when this happened, no different than your grandpa's side-by-side (legally).

You should have your concealed carry permit. I'm not asking you to reply, but I'd bet you've carried your gun in your vehicle "just in case" before. Well, if that's the case, then what the heck do you think you are going to do if something happened where you would need to use that gun - without a cc, you would instantly become a criminal, even if there is video of you defending yourself against a gang of illegal aliens attacking you with switchblades and dynamite.
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Old April 6, 2013, 01:12 PM   #23
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Im so glad to hear more and more from more people here from TEXAS. It is the law in the state of TEXAS that no agency can share information with another agency of the state. I had been fingerprinted to get my DL and was also fingerprinted for a misdemeanor years ago, despite this i had to get fingerprinted again for my chl due to this law though my prints were already on file with the dps and law enforcement. TEXAS is also one of many states whove introduced legislation making the confiscation of weapons by federal officers a felony crime in this state. If anyones thinking about coming for peoples guns, theyre not likely to do it here.
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Old April 6, 2013, 02:26 PM   #24
justplainpossum
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Thanks Crankgrinder, that's good to hear!

And no, Skans, I have never carried my gun off my ranch, except when I took it to the police department that one time (oh, and once when I lost the key to the safe and had to meet a locksmith in town.) Yeah, didn't feel too dumb about that one... lol
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Old April 8, 2013, 07:23 AM   #25
Skans
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If I had no intention of carrying a gun off of my homestead, then I might not get a concealed carry license. Might not. I do have some concern that in the future, it could become more difficult to obtain a cc license, and that those who already have them may get preferential treatment in having them renewed. From that perspective, it can't hurt.

I remember when I first purchased a motorcycle many years ago and had to get my motorcycle endorsement on the license. All I had to do was ask the lady at the license counter for the endorsement, and they put it on there. Now, you have to take a written and riding test. So, sometimes its wise to "get 'em while they're just handing them out".
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