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Old January 3, 2013, 01:16 PM   #26
Skans
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Yikes on the bent AR upper! How are these things supposed to hold up in battle when they can't even survive UPS?
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Old January 3, 2013, 05:46 PM   #27
Hairbag
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It's the USPS ! But I remain very "suspious" the force that it must have taken to bend this upper has to be intentional. I think there are tire marks on the box. That's what I said when I opened the box "HOLY CRAP" i got *^$#*@. I was so aggravated last night I could not sleep! Never again with GB. I'm only buying from reputable dealers.
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Old January 15, 2013, 10:07 PM   #28
tmorone
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+1 Uncle Malice..... whoa
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Old January 21, 2013, 11:43 PM   #29
Levant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahunua001
every stripped lower reciever is classified as a pistol unless the person buying is under 21 in which case by law they can only sell rifles and sell them as such. nobody is going to blink twice at an AR in pistol configuration.
I realize that this thread is slightly (just) dated but I want to clear this up. From the BATFE letters I have seen, this statement is false. Stripped lowers are Other. They are a firearm but are neither a rifle nor a pistol until you build it. If you build it as a rifle, it is always a rifle. If you build it as a pistol, it is a pistol (don't think I've heard anything from the BATFE on the "always" part for the pistol.

I just don't want folks to make incorrect assumptions about slight technicalities that can get you 10 years in prison.

There are plenty of letters on the topic directly from the BATFE. I'd search them out and make my decision from those rather than from an Internet forum thread.
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Old January 22, 2013, 12:27 PM   #30
Hairbag
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I have been researching the AR15 pistol myself and learned that after following all the NFA rules it does not matter much because some states might have further strict laws on Ar15 pistols. It's important to research fed law and your state laws. Most guys are quoting fed law and they may live in a state that mirrors fed law on AR15 pistols but a state can impose further restrictions. From what I have been reading Levant you are correct you can't bounce back and forth on pistol upppers and rifles uppers on a AR15 lower. The language outlined from BATF can be pretty confusing.
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Last edited by Hairbag; January 22, 2013 at 12:34 PM.
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:11 PM   #31
madcratebuilder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levant
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahunua001
every stripped lower reciever is classified as a pistol unless the person buying is under 21 in which case by law they can only sell rifles and sell them as such. nobody is going to blink twice at an AR in pistol configuration.
I realize that this thread is slightly (just) dated but I want to clear this up. From the BATFE letters I have seen, this statement is false. Stripped lowers are Other. They are a firearm but are neither a rifle nor a pistol until you build it. If you build it as a rifle, it is always a rifle. If you build it as a pistol, it is a pistol (don't think I've heard anything from the BATFE on the "always" part for the pistol.

I just don't want folks to make incorrect assumptions about slight technicalities that can get you 10 years in prison.

There are plenty of letters on the topic directly from the BATFE. I'd search them out and make my decision from those rather than from an Internet forum thread.
If the initial build using a "other" transferred lower is rifle it's always going to be a rifle. If the initial build is a pistol it can be used as either a rifle or pistol, and be changed back and forth.. This is a result of a court case by TC Arms.

This has been discussed at length at arfcom in the pistol section. All the ATF letters are posted there that confirms this.

I make it a point to use a pistol RE on all new builds, pin my pistol upper on and photograph.
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:46 PM   #32
Hairbag
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I did the same thing back in the day when I bought my virgin AR lower just in case. I took pics of pistol upper on the lower and put them on disc and put away for safekeeping.
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Old January 22, 2013, 09:43 PM   #33
tgreening
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Maybe I'm missing something here but...what problem exactly does this solve? I understand the underlying concept, but I don't see how a picture takes care of the issue.

Ok, you have a picture of it as a "pistol". So? All that shows is that at sometime or the other it was in a pistol configuration. It doesn't prove that it was a pistol first. Shoot, that thing could have been an SBR rifle for 6 months, or 6 minutes, prior to this picture being taken. If no one in an official position (that matters) saw it and took note of the fact that it was either a pistol or rifle, and when, I don't see what good a picture does. Truthfully, I don't see what good a picture does period when it comes to proving anything.

How can you legally argue to the BATF that "this particular firearm was built as a pistol first, so I can switch back and forth at my will so long as I never fall under NFA rules"?

It seems to me that the only way to be legally covered was if you purchased it as a pistol and it was registered "somewhere" as such, then you could convert it to a rifle and back AND be able to verifiably cover your butt.


I could build one of the lowers I have right now as your standard vanilla flavored AR, play around with it for YEARS then covert it to a pistol which legally I'm not supposed to do and play around with it for years again, and then switch back. How is anyone going to prove it?
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Old January 22, 2013, 10:06 PM   #34
saands
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Well ... the pic as a pistol probably can't be used to definitively prove that you first configured it as a pistol, but the fact that it was a pistol while the receiver was still 100% pristine certainly supports the argument that you are making. Is it a guarantee, nah, but I think that the burden of proof on this one will fall on the prosecution ... if for no other reason than it is almost impossible to prove otherwise ... EVEN if you did get it originally registered as a pistol ... you STILL could have gotten home, gotten excited, and gotten it configured as a rifle first!

I'm glad that someone FINALLY posted a place to look for the definitive (and hopefully documented) answer to this question ... I am tired of people posting that something is illegal without citing a reference.

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