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Old December 22, 2012, 03:38 PM   #1
Pahoo
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The shooting "Triad"

First off, let me state that I have not worked out many of the details on the following suggestion. ...

The shooting triad would include;
1) Potential Victims.
2) Potential Bad Guys.
3) Guns and "Stuff".

On guns, I would suggest that all firearm manufacturers include a training voucher with each firearm they sell. This voucher would partially or completely cover the cost of a training session by certified NRA instructor. The purchaser would have an option of when he chooses to redeme or even opt out. Scheduled classes could be held at local guns stores, clubs or conservation club locations. Locations could also include Scheduled Gun Shows. You could even have all "Women's" classe. The state and certainly federal governments would have no input or control. Everyone on the Gun end could say they were doing their part. .....

There is a saying that a good idea is only as good as the time it takes for someone to shoot it down. So, the range is hot !!!

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 22, 2012, 04:54 PM   #2
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Personally, I like the idea. Part of me thinks that if there wasn't a fee for the classes, more people would choose to take them. Some people, myself included, have to save a while just to make a gun purchase, the extra cost of a class (which can be expensive) can be daunting to a new gun owner.

However, the realistic side of me says that we would still end up paying for the class in the long run. Gun manufacturers are not going to want to pay for it. Unfortunately, I'm sure they would eventually add the cost of the voucher to the handgun price. Although if that is what it takes to make firearm ownership safer. Maybe it would be worth the small price increase.

Interesting idea!
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Old December 22, 2012, 05:19 PM   #3
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How about we require a basic safety and operations course in general before one is allowed to purchase a firearm? And whats wrong with paying for it? Im sure the cost would be minor in comparison to a few hundred rounds of the average ammunition and surely that is worth the gained safety and confidence aspect of it all.
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Old December 22, 2012, 05:49 PM   #4
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Money well spent !!

Quote:
How about we require a basic safety and operations course in general before one is allowed to purchase a firearm? And what's wrong with paying for it?
You know we can't go there as it would be considered by some, including myself, as an infringement. The actual cost of the voucher, would be covered my the manufacturer, the purchaser and the instructor. Also, there would be grants that would be available. This would be an opertunity for people to put their money where. ..... You got it !! ...

I've actually seen grants for horses, dogs and cats. What about real people?? ..


Be Saffe !!!
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Old December 22, 2012, 07:05 PM   #5
Al Thompson
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How about we require a basic civics and current issues course in general before one is allowed to vote?

Any other things in the Constitution you'd like to restrict?
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Old December 22, 2012, 07:08 PM   #6
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Shall not be infringed....

Sent from this... Using that...
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Old December 22, 2012, 07:29 PM   #7
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K.I.S.S.

Quote:
Any other things in the Constitution you'd like to restrict?
Be clear as to whom you are addressing this to. There are no restrictions in my post. ...

Just now watching the nightly news and they mentioned an Oregon gun store is offering these classes for free. Did not mention the store but my hat is off to them and proves that we can handle it on a local level. ...

As some of you know, I am a Hunter Safety Instructor and it is a requirement to attend this course before you can go hunting. During these classes, I take a few personal liberties. From time to time I hear comments against the NRA. I then ask them if they enjoy out classes and that the NRA was instrumental in starting them for yourng hunters. I use to have training materials printed by the NRA.

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 22, 2012, 11:37 PM   #8
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that my friend is just like the jim crow laws of the old south. It is a right given by God himself to preserve life and preserve that life thru force when needed! If we a citizens and not subjects there is no reasonable restriction.
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Old December 23, 2012, 12:31 AM   #9
GreaseMonkey4Hire
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Quote:
How about we require a basic civics and current issues course in general before one is allowed to vote?
That almost sounds like common sense......
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Old December 23, 2012, 10:11 AM   #10
Al Thompson
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Quote:
attend this course before you can go hunting
And the Second Amendment is about hunting, how?

Here's the slippery slope a lot of well intentioned folks miss about allowing the government to control access to your fundamental rights. If they control access, they can restrict access. Just as if you can tax it, you can destroy it by taxing it so heavily that it's uneconomical.

Want to make me take a course in order to exercise my rights? How much is that going to cost me? And when are you going to raise that cost?

Pretty good example occurred in northern Virginia some years back. Several counties wanted to slow growth, so they restricted granting Building Permits to a trickle. Want to slow or stop any firearms transfers? Take NICS off line. In California, that would be all legal sales, BTW.
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Old December 23, 2012, 10:31 AM   #11
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Getting the government involved in mandatory training would do nothing but give the government more control over our guns and shooting sports.

They would make it cost prohibitive, and they would make the standards so high no one could pass or BOTH.

That would be the easiest way to get more gun control.

There is free training out there, just look.

The last thing we need is to make self defense a rich man's game.
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Old December 23, 2012, 11:11 AM   #12
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Back sometime between 1968 and 1970 I was in high school when Colorado implemented the hunter safety requirement in order to get a hunting liscense.
What they did was include the hunter safety course for eveyone in the high schools as part of PE .

At that time,Fort Collins High school still had a rifle team and indoor range.

I personally think programs like Eddie Eagle and Hunter Safety return to the public school system.

Eddie Eagle is an NRA program that is for younger kids..Do not touch the firearm,leave,tell an adult is my understanding of the general idea.

I think the time is now for the school system to get over its political stance of trying to rid society of guns,honor our Bill of Rights,and recognise that,while not all students will be hunters or shooters,our society is a better,safer place if everyone knows the four rules.

Mainstream the safe,responsible ,adult use of firearms and shooting sports,take it out of the dark alley.

Young folks will look up to and emulate something.

It could be the old game wardens that taught us,Sig Palm and Gurney Crawford,or someone the likes of kraigwy.showing the young men and women the fundementals..or it can be the young folks trying to teach themselves how to hold a handgun sideways the way they do in Pulp Fiction,or whatever(I skipped that one)

Show all of the young folks the right way!!

Make honorable shooting sports a thing of honor,trust,respect,maturity.

Do that and you will take it away from punks.

And when someone starts shooting up a school,on site needs to be the means and the skills to put a stop to it.

A shepherd needs to be able to defend the flock.

I would like to think among at least some teachers and principles there is a sense of rage at the helplessness and an understanding they look in the mirror every day at the one person with the power to stop it.

Who could live with the helplessness after what has happened?
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Old December 23, 2012, 11:21 AM   #13
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Once again we seem to be trying to appease the gun control crowd. Mass murder has nothing to do with the perp not having proper safety training. Keep Mother Government out of it. If a retailer wants to offer free training classes with firearm purchases, more power to them. It could be a great way to get new customers into the business.
I agree with the comment about requiring classes to vote. How many more Constitutional rights do we want to give the political class the opportunity to "interpet" and redefine for us. If you want training expect to pay somebody for it, their time just like yours is not free, neither is insurance, supplies, facilities, or anything else. I try to set aside time and money for one good training each year, more if I can, but travel to and from eats up much of it. Save up, train up, and have fun.
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Old December 23, 2012, 02:52 PM   #14
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I thought this was going to be about rifles, shotguns and handguns. My rule is don't shoot nothing you don't want shot and all will be well. If you aim that empty gun at things you don't want shot someday it won't be empty and you will have a very bad day.
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Old December 24, 2012, 01:51 AM   #15
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If someone wants to offer training subsidies to take classes on a VOLUNTARY basis then I would have no problem getting behind that.

If you want to make gun ownership conditional on taking taking that course then i would have a problem with that.

If maybe the county or state would want to wave a CCW or purchase permit fee based on taking the course I dont think I would have a problem with that either.

Im not too thrilled with getting the NRA mafia involved either but it might end up being a necessary evil to standardize a course standard in the beginning but once thats done I would open it up to any competent instructor.

Now having a test to be able to vote?? HELL YES.
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Old December 24, 2012, 09:07 AM   #16
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Quote:
Im not too thrilled with getting the NRA mafia involved either
Mafia??????

I wasn't aware the NRA forced anyone to do anything. They provide a service no one else (Excluding the CMP and AMU) chose to provide, but they don't force anyone to partake.

They provide training to our smaller police departments who otherwise couldn't afford it.

My NRA instructor training was voluntary, how ever my FBI training was mandatory for me to get my firearm instructor certification.

I wouldn't classify the NRA as Mafia. Take it or leave it, at least with the NRA I had a choice, not so with the FBI.
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Old December 24, 2012, 10:47 AM   #17
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Give credit where credit is due !!

Quote:
Im not too thrilled with getting the NRA mafia involved either but it might end up being a necessary evil to standardize a course standard in the beginning but once thats done I would open it up to any competent instructor.
It's not surprising that you are not informed on the many training programs that the NRA not only conduct but initiated. In part, that is one of their downfalls. Most folks only see, that they just oppose gun control and are strictly a lobying group/mafia. Most of what gun folks see is mailings, asking for donations. On many fronts, they have set and protected the foudation for everyone's rights. They need to better communicate their good deeds and not just pop up when the rats at the door. ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 24, 2012, 03:48 PM   #18
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Quote:

Im not too thrilled with getting the NRA mafia involved either but it might end up being a necessary evil to standardize a course standard in the beginning but once thats done I would open it up to any competent instructor.
You peel a lot of potatoes and scrub a lot of pots and pans don't you? Next time before you make such a stupid comparison you might want to research what and who the Mafia were and are and you might want to do a little research on the NRA and its mission.
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Old December 25, 2012, 06:21 AM   #19
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My apologies for the mafia reference - I do know what the NRA is all about. and 99% of what they do i fully support - hence my life membership. (1984)
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Old December 25, 2012, 06:45 PM   #20
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Those who want to learn will seek out the information on their own. Those who think they already know all they need to know will just waste everyone's time. Making classes mandatory won't accomplish a thing.
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Old December 25, 2012, 09:07 PM   #21
Pahoo
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Restated

Quote:
Making classes mandatory won't accomplish a thing.
Some of you guys are either more paranoid than I or unable to read. Where in and of my post/replies have I stated that it was mandatory or not in step with the second amendment? This suggestion would not infringe in anyone's rights but intended to suppliment one's knowledge and as you know, there are many gun owners out there that are truly lacking. ....

Prior to Iowa going Shall-Issue there was a term that read, Demonstrated Responsibility. As person attending a class like this would certainly have qualify. ....

I'm not for mandatory training or any such restrictions but knowledge never hurt anyone. ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 25, 2012, 10:23 PM   #22
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Most of the ranges that I shoot at have mandatory training before you shoot there. All of the pistol classes have mandatory training, and if you don't follow it you don't shoot. Hunting licenses have mandatory training everyone is watching you, if you screw up you will be notified. I don't think we need much more.
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Old December 28, 2012, 12:23 AM   #23
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the mandatory training doesnt always do a thing thats useful.

to own a car you need a drivers liscense. to get the drivers liscence you need to pass a driving test and a multiple choice test.

part of the test is staying in your lane and NOT using your hi beams at night when your within 500 yards of oncoming traffic. yet not one single dimwit can follow either law...

drivers ed told us not to toke up, hit the crack pipe, or have a beer before driving somewhere. yet everyone who gets caught drunk driving always says "no one told me not to"
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Old December 28, 2012, 03:24 PM   #24
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Proctecting Potential victims

For your edification and the range is still hot !!!

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/12/28...ell-regret-it/

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 31, 2012, 03:29 PM   #25
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I have to say that there are alot of things that you can encourage people to do, without the requirement to do and it actually does help. I've spoken about this with several friends after seeing unwise behavior at the range.

For example, I would love to see local shops give information about inexpensive or even free training opportunities with each purchase.

I also think that the idea that any requirements are an infringement is a little extreme. All rights carry some responsibility. Heck, I was shocked at in Georgia, that I needed to demonstrate zero knowledge or ability (or sense) before getting my carry license.
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