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Old December 22, 2012, 08:44 PM   #1
tynman
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Need some Help with mounts and rings.

This is what I have and what I am trying to do. I am new to the long range shooting so if I ask something silly or if I dont make any sense Im sorry for that in advance...
I just bought a savage arms 16 fcss .308 for this rifle I also have a trijicon Accupoint 5x20x50mm with a 30mm tube.
Now from what I have read about the scope I need a 20 MOA mount to be able to reach 1000 yards. So I got the 2 piece ken ferrall 20 MOA mount. I also got the weaver 0 MOA mounts. Now according to weaver they show for a 50mm lens I need the X-high rings which I bought. Now this is where my questions come in.
1 I mounted the 20 MOA mount and the X-High rings and the lens of the scope is about 3/4 of an inch off the barrel, is it suppost to be like that? If so I thought you always wanted the scope as close to the barrel?

2 Do I need it to be so high off the barrel to get that extra long range moa shots? Cause if not I was thinking of getting the Med or low rings to get it closer to the barrel?

3 If I use the 0 moa mounts then I think the X-high rings would be good or just right (I dont know yet cause the company messed up and only sent me one, so Im waiting for the second one to come in to check)

4 So another question I have if I use 20 moa mount and lower rings and bring the scope down to 1/8 or less off the barrel will I have that extra to get the 1000 yard shot off? If I use the 0 moa mount and the higher rings and have the scope a 1/8 or so off the barrel isnt that the same as using the 20 moa mounts?

Please let me know so I dont spend money I dont need to spend tomorrow on lower rings if I would be doing the same thing.
Thanks for your help
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Old December 22, 2012, 11:28 PM   #2
DnPRK
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Forget the 0 MOA mount and use the 20 MOA mounts. The 20 MOA mounts will keep your scope from running out of vertical adjustment when you try to dial in a 1000 yd zero.

Use the 20 MOA mounts and find some rings that put the scope objective bell about 1/4 of an inch from the barrel. The specifications for rings will list the distance from the top surface of the scope mount to the bottom of the scope tube.

If you can brace the rifle so it is level, you can place 2 equal stacks of pennies on top of the mounts and rest the scope on top of the stacks. Add or subtract pennies from the stacks until you get the scope objective bell 1/4 of an inch from the barrel, then measure the height of the stack of pennies. Buy rings with the same height specs as your stack of pennies.
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Old December 22, 2012, 11:35 PM   #3
tynman
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So are you saying I dont want the scope bell less then 1/4 inch off the barrel?
If get the bell 1/4 inch or a little lower to the barrel will the vertical hight still work for the 1000 yards?
Thanks for your help.
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Old December 23, 2012, 12:13 PM   #4
oneoldsap
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If you are going to be shooting your rifle from the prone position , you might want to take a trip to the range to see how it fits , before you change anything . You may want to add some cheekrest to your stock also . You don't want to have to hunch down to get a good sight picture !
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Old December 23, 2012, 02:32 PM   #5
tynman
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Well Im not changing anything yet....LOL but thanks for the suggestion.
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Old December 23, 2012, 02:38 PM   #6
tynman
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OK How about this?
If I go with the high (20 MOA) mount and the low rings or if I go with the low mount and the X-high rings arent I doing the same thing?
Or does the 20 moa mount add to the scope vertical adjustment?

Im just trying to figure this all out. I have the scope already which I really like, I have the ken ferral 20 MOA mount and the weaver skeleton X high rings. So Im just trying to find out if I should waste the money for lower rings if its not going to give me that extra 20 MOA from the base.

But if the lower rings with the 20 moa mount brings the scope closer to the barrel and gives me the 20 extra moa off the base then thats what I want to do.

Thanks
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Old December 23, 2012, 03:29 PM   #7
SSA
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Quote:
lower rings with the 20 moa mount brings the scope closer to the barrel and gives me the 20 extra moa off the base then thats what I want to do
Do that. You'll still have the 20 moa cant.
Your rings are too high. It sounds like you have rings that were intended for an AR, not a bolt action. 1/8" or so is plenty of clearance between scope and barrel.
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Old December 23, 2012, 05:21 PM   #8
tynman
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The rings that I bought weaver web site said to use for a scope with 50mm objective lens. Im sure they would have worked if I went with the 0 moa mount.
When I was ordering the ken ferral mount the gentelman told me to use the the ferral low rings and that would give me about an 1/8 or 1/16 in between the barrel and the scope which I like and want(but I dont want to lose the extra 20 MOA) but I didnt have an extra $163 after buying the 308 and the scope and mount. I wish I did then I wouldnt be having this problem now.
I called weaver before ordering the rings to try to get there measurements on all those ring but Im still waiting for a call back which was about 2 weeks ago.

Thanks for your help.
Im going to go tomorrow to a sporting goods store about an hour way from me, which they said over the phone that they have all 3 sizes of the weaver rings so I am bringing the rifle and the scope with me to fit it the way it should be.
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Old December 24, 2012, 07:36 AM   #9
DnPRK
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Websites which sell rings such as midwayusa.com or brownells.com provide the specifications for many brands and models of scope rings. If you measure the dimensions you need and refer to the websites, you will know what you need when you walk into the store. Otherwise, the store clerk will sell you what he has in stock (not what you really need).
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Old December 24, 2012, 08:55 AM   #10
cecILL
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Forgive my peabrain, but what is going on here?
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Old December 24, 2012, 12:17 PM   #11
tynman
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I checked those websites and the problem with that is that every company that makes rings measures them diffrently. So I have to go in person and get it sized.
I wont buy rings just to buy them from the store stock. But I will use them for a reffrence point if they dont have the ones I want.
Thanks

Now for the what is going on here question.
I am trying to figure out which ring will work for my rifle and if a 20 MOA mount or a 0 MOA mount with diffrent rings make a diffrence or if I just doing the same thing with diffrent equipment.
Hope that helped clear things up for you.
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Old December 24, 2012, 03:43 PM   #12
emcon5
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Scope height is not all that critical, assuming you can get a good cheek weld.

Generally speaking, a lower mounted scope can give the perception of a slightly flatter trajectory between the muzzle and your zero range, and a higher mount will make the trajectory seem a little flatter beyond your zero range.

If you are shooting long range, you will most likely be adjusting your elevation anyway, so it really doesn't matter all that much, provided when you initially calculate your trajectory for each range, you include an accurate sight height.
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Old January 2, 2013, 04:57 PM   #13
tynman
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Well I can tell you that the weaver 30MM Low scope rings still put me to high off the barrel... So now I have a set of extra high and lows that I wont be using....LOL
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Old January 5, 2013, 12:41 AM   #14
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Another thought for you - Burris Signature Zee Rings. I use them for two reasons:
  • The plastic inserts prevent the scope from being scratched, to help preserve resale value.
  • You can use different inserts to adjust your MOA elevation. I have a kit with a variety of offset values (0, +- .005", +- .010", and +-.020"). Very handy if you have a gun where you have trouble finding a MOA base.
You are still better off (IMHO) getting a MOA offset picatinny base if you can find one - EGW is an excellent source for a wide variety of rifles - but the Burris rings are top notch quality and a good alternative option.
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Old January 5, 2013, 10:36 AM   #15
tynman
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Fargazer I wish I had know about them before cause they could have saved me a lot of money (about $260) The only problem I would have is which hight to get to fit my scope and rifle because no one around here carries 30MM, everyone has 1 inch. So I might have been stuck ordering 2 diffrent sets(mid and high) But I wouldnt have to spent $100 on my 2 piece 20 MOA mount.
Thanks for the insite.
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Old January 5, 2013, 03:32 PM   #16
SSA
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Quote:
told me to use the the ferral low rings and that would give me about an 1/8 or 1/16 in between the barrel and the scope
The low Weavers should be about the same height as the low Farrels.
Wonder if it's possible the front and rear bases are switched.
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Old January 5, 2013, 05:57 PM   #17
tynman
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The farrell rings are a little lower the the weaver lows. Which I ended up ordering and putting on the rifle. The scope still isnt less then a 1/8 off the barrel the way I wanted it. But its going to have to due cause Im done spending money and I havnt even fired 1 round thru it.....LOL
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Old January 5, 2013, 09:45 PM   #18
gk1
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Do you have the 20 MOA mount arranged with the high end in the back? Do you anticipate using a sunshade? Both of these will factor into ring height, along with the scope length and position in the rings.

The mount should slope down in front, so that the barrel has +20 MOA up angle when the scope is level. I don't mean to insult you, but it's easy to get backwards, and is pretty important

If using a sunshade (ever) it will add several inches at the objective end, and will continue the down angle of the scope relative to the barrel, which may require slightly more ring height.

All that said, many ring makers provide actual measurements of their rings' height, so if you measure yours from base to center of the tube, and then subtract the barrel-to-objective gap, you should be able to select the correct height rings. Be sure to go a bit high rather than low.

As has been said, fitting you is more important than anything else, so if your eye is behind the center of the eyepiece when in position, you have the right rings, regardless of the gap at the objective.
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Old January 5, 2013, 10:58 PM   #19
tynman
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Gk1 the mounts came marked F (front) and R (rear) so I made sure I put them in the right spot. I don't think the the screw holes would line up if I put the mount on facing the wrong way would they? Don't you want the high side of the 20 moa facing the tip of the barrel?
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Old January 5, 2013, 11:17 PM   #20
SSA
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Quote:
Don't you want the high side of the 20 moa facing the tip of the barrel?
No.
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:09 AM   #21
tynman
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Yeah I took a good look at the mounts and the front one was backwards so I turned it around now its the right way so now I I have about a 1/4 inch or less from the objective and the barrel. Thanks for your in site.
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