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Old December 23, 2012, 12:24 PM   #1
db creekside
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Model 700 bolt issue

Here is an image of a typical .308 case from my Model 700. From what I've read I have an extractor problem. After about 5 - 6 rounds the bolt is really hard to close until I clean out the little brass shavings from the chamber face and the bolt face (bolt face image also attached). That's Remington brass and this has been a problem from the start.

The rifle has little more than 100 rds thru it but is over 12 years old... that's another problem... recently somewhat solved by finding a place to shoot!

Anyway, I'm hoping to learn from the experience others have had with this issue and what might be some possible solutions.

Thanks in advance!
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File Type: jpg case- rim shaved.jpg (118.7 KB, 98 views)
File Type: jpg bolt face.jpg (97.2 KB, 108 views)
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Old December 23, 2012, 02:36 PM   #2
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Pretty ugly bolt face. Is that rust on the top corner of the RH lug in the picture? Could there be rust in the lug recess, chamber, bore? Could there be debris (rust) under the extractor restricting its movement? Does the bolt open and close easily on an empty chamber? I know, I know... alot of questions and no answers. Just things to think about.
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Old December 23, 2012, 04:54 PM   #3
db creekside
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The bolt opens and closes nicely on an empty chamber. In fact even with the shavings in, extraction is not a problem... its putting the bolt handle down home with a round in that's a problem.

No evidence of rust, debris, etc. Thanks for checking and no problem with questions, they help.
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Old December 23, 2012, 08:39 PM   #4
Gbro
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After you fire are you working the bolt with vigor as one would when hunting, or are you slowly opening the bolt and finding this damage to the case extractor grove?
Does cycling your rounds through your action do this or is it only when you are shooting?
And that is more than little brass shavings IMO
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Old December 23, 2012, 09:02 PM   #5
db creekside
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Slowly opening better describes how I have been working it.

I should have cycled some rounds through it when last at the range. Very reluctant to do it at home. I'll be getting that done next.

Your opinion is consistent with others that have seen the images! Thank you for your help in my "investigation."
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Old December 23, 2012, 09:12 PM   #6
4V50 Gary
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The bolt closes easily on an empty chamber right? If so, I think the bolt face needs polishing. I've never seen such a crude bolt face.

As for the brass being gouged, that may need polishing too.
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Old December 23, 2012, 09:24 PM   #7
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Something is seriously wrong with the bolt face. It looks like a large chunk is missing. This is what it should look like.

Compare my bolt to the 2nd photo you posted.

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Old December 24, 2012, 01:25 AM   #8
db creekside
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Thanks for putting the photo up. Big difference. I think my bolt is cast, not machined. The rifle is an ADL purchased in 2000. Could be it is low end.

The missing portion appears to be by design, no breakage. Also, my extractor is WAY out compared to the photo. Maybe mine is bent?

Anyway, thanks again. Very helpful.
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Old December 24, 2012, 01:44 AM   #9
db creekside
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4V50 Gary- Yes, the bolt does close easily on an empty chamber. Thanks for checking this out. After input here I'm thinking my bolt is from a low end manufacturing line at Remington. Polishing will be part of this improvement effort.

When you wrote "As for the brass being gouged, that may need polishing too.", did you mean the brass itself if it was going to be reloaded? Or something like the extractor needs polish? Sorry, just looking for cause I guess. I will clean up that brass prior to loading it, though.
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Old December 24, 2012, 07:06 AM   #10
tango1niner
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So the shaving occurs when closing the bolt. Perhaps the extractor has a bunch of debris behind it preventing it from moving out of the way when it encounters the cartridge rim as you close the bolt so it cuts by the rim. I have never seen a Rem. bolt face like yours with, 1. the surface finish and
2. the additional cut out. Your extractor does appear to protrude a bit more than usual as you mentioned as well.
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Old December 24, 2012, 07:15 AM   #11
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Looks like extractor is broken or machined wrong, Have your gunsmith look at it.
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Old December 24, 2012, 10:58 AM   #12
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The OP's picture is of a normal recent 700 bolt face.

Have you had a headspace gage in the chamber yet to see if it is a tight chamber? With a "go" gage in the chamber, you should be able to strip the guts out of the bolt, put the gage into a clean chamber and the bolt should just drop closed. If it doesn't, then you might have a short chamber and that's why after firing a few rounds dirtying up your chamber, your bolt starts exhibiting trouble closing.

Last edited by wyop; December 24, 2012 at 11:05 AM.
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Old December 24, 2012, 11:34 AM   #13
db creekside
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This bolt face difference is interesting (see attached). Compared to jmr40's, mine looks like it was refurbished from a saltwater marsh. Design differences too. Now I'm looking for a Model 700 reference that might explain this (?).

I'll be seeing a gunsmith on these issues soon. Much more informed now, though. Thanks to all for the help.
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File Type: jpg bolt face comparison.jpg (178.3 KB, 52 views)
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Old December 24, 2012, 01:01 PM   #14
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One other thing to look for on extractors is burrs on the extractor that shave brass off the case head as the bolt is closed.
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Old December 24, 2012, 11:03 PM   #15
4V50 Gary
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I'm sorry for not being clear. It's not the brass that needs polishing but the extractor should be examined. I don't have a Remington out but if you compare your photo with jmr40's you can see how much further your extractor projects toward the center. It may need some setting back and polishing.
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Old December 27, 2012, 06:35 PM   #16
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I agree with jmr40, there is something seriously wrong with that bolt and I don't know any solution except to send the rifle back to Remington. Call them first, though. At t that age, I doubt work would be under warranty but explain that the problem is obviously from the factory even though the rifle has not been fired much.

Meantime, I would not do or have done any work on the bolt or extractor.

Jim
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Old December 27, 2012, 09:23 PM   #17
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I agree the bolt is machined incorrectly. I'd send it back to Remmy for a new bolt. I don't understand how the extractor even can fit with that gouge out of the bolt face.
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Old December 28, 2012, 02:11 AM   #18
db creekside
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That notch came up before and as wyop pointed out, it's normal for recent bolts but don't know what year it started. See attached from other website.

I believe the purpose of the notch is to facilitate extractor replacement. I have two on the way
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File Type: jpg 700boltfaces.jpg (85.8 KB, 27 views)
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Old December 28, 2012, 07:33 AM   #19
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Interesting the changes made to bolt faces over the years. Out of curiosity, I pulled my Rem 700 (.308) and looked at the bolt face. This rifle was made in 1983.



After looking at that photo, it's time to give that bolt a good cleaning. It's raining outside, so I guess I'll get out the cleaning kit.
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Old December 28, 2012, 09:58 PM   #20
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There have been several changes to the Remington extractors over the years.

It would have helped if Remington had been interested in getting their extractor correct, rather than cheap, on the first go-round. But, Remington being what Remington is, cheap wins over correct most every time with them. So they have to go back and change it... and change it... and change it.
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Old December 29, 2012, 09:21 PM   #21
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The OP's bolt face almost looks like someone tried to rework the bolt head to change caliber. Factories can and do make mistakes, but that looks like a bad end mill job that got away. In any case, if I were still a gunsmith I certainly would not take it for repair except to return it to the factory. Note that if returned, send the whole rifle; due to headspacing concerns they will not, repeat not, take just the bolt.

Jim
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Old December 31, 2012, 10:20 PM   #22
db creekside
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Update: bolt closes home nicely and no more of those shavings of brass after I replaced the extractor... $13.00 mail order part

I had not done this repair before, but afterwards I fired 40 rounds of three different types of ammo, fed a bunch of unfired thru it... works great.

Now will it happen again? Could. Some wrote that I have bigger bolt problems. Definitely looking into that some more. Thanks to everyone, lots of great input here.
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:29 PM   #23
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Great going, and Happy New Year!
I wish you many years of trouble free shooting
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