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Old December 27, 2012, 12:08 PM   #201
nate45
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They want all semi-autos banned. Period. Thats their goal. They have decided in their minds that leaving us with revolvers, bolt actions, etc will satisfy the Supreme Court, for now.

If any someone thinks they will quit and say they are satisfied, no matter what concessions are made, they are deluding themselves.
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Old December 27, 2012, 12:44 PM   #202
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Isn't this essentially trying to tax them out of existence? If they all become NFA, isn't there like a $200 fee for each gun? I would have to get rid of 1/2 my collection, there's no way I could afford to pay $200 for each gun that falls in there. I don't want to even think of the bill for the bigger collectors...

Lets not forget that local PDs will be flooded with people trying to get proof of eligibility to own from them. I noticed that the bill does not provide for funds for them...
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Old December 27, 2012, 01:23 PM   #203
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Although congress has an apparently unlimited power to tax I don't think in necessarily has that same unlimited power concerning arms. Also and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't congresses ability to tax predicated about trade across state borders? I'm not sure how the weapons I currently own would or could constitute trade since I have no intention of selling them...

I can see a SAF membership in my immediate future!
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Old December 27, 2012, 02:07 PM   #204
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If it has not already been posted:

Summary of 2013 legislation

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/publ...ssault-weapons

EDIT:
Found it in post 189.

Does anyone know what the "120" banned items are?

I am hoping to get an M1A and a FN SLP someday.
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Old December 27, 2012, 02:46 PM   #205
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This seems to give the anti-gun folks tons of room to "settle for less" then they ask for by over reaching so much...I just hope and pray that we all stick together as firearm owners and ensure this legislation is totally defeated.

Interesting note though that Feinstein wants to mess with the NFA, and such, an enterprising senator could introduce a poison pill in many ways, because as NFA stands now, the typical AR-15 could not be a part of NFA, unless it was either SBR'd, suppressed, or converted to full auto. I wonder which Feinstein would prefer?
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Old December 27, 2012, 02:55 PM   #206
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All I can tell you is this: I was at the local Walmart looking at fairly sparse ammo and two middle aged gentlemen I have never met and don't know engaged me in a friendly conversation...

My summation would be fear is turning to anger.. If these gentlemen are representative of the average Joe then then anyone who votes for this nonsense wont be forgotten come election time...
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Old December 27, 2012, 02:56 PM   #207
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I don't know, I think the part about making currently-owned guns into NFA items is pretty overreaching. As a matter of fact, that particular part may prove to be the poison pill as it will likely lose her the support of people who wouldn't otherwise oppose an AWB because they already own what they want or are hoping to turn profits once it's passed. Likewise, placing such onerous restrictions on firearms that are already legally owned may not sit well with the courts.
Agreed.

I read along with the summary and at first most of it looked like more of the 1994 AWB. Just adding things and changing some rules. But saying that all the semi-autos currently owned have to be registered? The owner has to be fingerprinted? And they can't ever be transferred? That sort of thing will never pass.

But... as was pointed out by others... we have to expect the Left is creating a bargaining position. You start out with more than you can actually expect to pass, that gives you room to "bargain." Drop a few things here and there and then graciously accept "only" getting a reinstatement of the AWB with additional restrictions.

I'm going to keep joining every pro-gun group I can find. The NRA, GOA, and SAF are going to end up doubling or tripling in size before this is done!!

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Old December 27, 2012, 03:10 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGutzman View Post
All I can tell you is this: I was at the local Walmart looking at fairly sparse ammo and two middle aged gentlemen I have never met and don't know engaged me in a friendly conversation...
Had a similar exchange whilst at Academy last night. Sense of community increases when you're attacked. Good could come from the gun grabbers drawing us closer together.
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Old December 27, 2012, 03:25 PM   #209
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I'm still laughing at the single shot black powder replica with a thumbhole stock being illegal in her bill.
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Old December 27, 2012, 03:28 PM   #210
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well here is a summery if you are curious.

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/publ...2-ac8ca4359119

to sum it up she wants to make these firearms regulated the same way machine guns are today, thrown in the NFA and production of new weapons stopped.


Well I see some good stuff in there:
Quote:
Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test
The little thingee that goes up is still on the naughty list. Some people are just spiteful.

Quote:
Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans
These things were always hideously ugly. There are better looking ways to do a work around.

Quote:
Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment
Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes
Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons
I think any rifle designed more than fifty years ago should qualify as an antique. But I do not understand the whole "hunting or sporting purposes thing0".

Quote:

Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:
Background check of owner and any transferee;
Type and serial number of the firearm;
Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration
Somehow I don't think that is going to work. I don't believe that tens of millions of people are going to run out and register their guns, provide photo ID fingerprints and whatnot. That must be how they are planning on getting rid of the guns by making them "illegal".

I wonder what people who think they are having their rights violated and they are being pushed around will do?
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Old December 27, 2012, 03:51 PM   #211
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Sue for injunctive relief pending an attempt to work their way up to a certiori grant.
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Old December 27, 2012, 04:23 PM   #212
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Quote:
Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes
Does anyone have any concrete information regarding which guns this would include?

900 sounds like a lot, but it could include tricks to inflate the apparent number, such as counting every single minor variation of the Marlin/Glenfield Model 60 as a separate weapon.
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Old December 27, 2012, 05:17 PM   #213
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They probably didn't mean 900 models of guns exempted.. they meant 900 guns period allowed.... Imagine a $200 tax on every firearm you own...

I know that's not what they really said but still, talk about a gun grab! The tax part however is very real as is the fingerprinting and photographing... Hey what happened to innocent until proven guilty..
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Old December 27, 2012, 05:53 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguychris
900 sounds like a lot, but it could include tricks to inflate the apparent number, such as counting every single minor variation of the Marlin/Glenfield Model 60 as a separate weapon.
That's the way the CA DOJ counts handguns on their safe gun roster...
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Old December 27, 2012, 06:14 PM   #215
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This is an excerpt out of Sen. Feinsteins new proposed legislation. All of it is Crap! This is just one of the sections that is as close to what Hitler did in Germany.

Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:
o Background check of owner and any transferee;
o Type and serial number of the firearm;
o Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
o Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
o Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration.


Well, talk about a list for confiscation! Dedicated funding...BS, they will do nothing but charge each of us to implement this trash legislation.
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Old December 27, 2012, 06:32 PM   #216
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So if passed one could have a bayonet lug and flash suppressor, but now only one evil feature?

Plus registering all firearms. And if you already own it, you're ok.
Ten rd mags.

That's my summation, any how.
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Old December 27, 2012, 06:55 PM   #217
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The way I saw it was the flash suppressor and bay lug do not count for the evil features.

But it is the monetary fee to register your guns which you already paid for and purchased legally the part I do not like (and the second background check).

And still no clarification on the 120 on the naughty list.

And the bullet button does not count as a get around and is treated as if not there (even though I think that is only a CA thing).
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Old December 27, 2012, 07:00 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by rickyrick View Post
Plus registering all firearms. And if you already own it, you're ok.
I'm not OK with joining any registration of firearms.
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Old December 27, 2012, 07:07 PM   #219
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If this passes it'll be really a sad day...

pistols with 10 round fixed mags? Wow i'd love to see what we'd have to come up with for that one? Bringing back some old school stuff.

I'll refrain from posting the rest of my opinions...
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Old December 27, 2012, 08:45 PM   #220
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Sorry I meant that as two separate sentences. That you get to keep your currently owned firearms.

I'm not good with registering either
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Old December 27, 2012, 09:36 PM   #221
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Some are afraid of not being armed and a lot of people are afraid of armed criminals, some think we'd be safer with no guns. Okay, here is an idea.

We have national gun licenses, shall issue on completion of a class and background check. That would let you own all non-semi auto firearms. Then if you take a longer safety, proficiency, mental health class/interview you can be issued an M4, but no other full autos, and also own any semi-autos you want, with up to a 30 round magazine, no big 100 rounders any more. Then they could have classes where like say a three man team could get a surplus M60 and other programs like that.

CCW will also be that national license/permit, but you have to go through an intensive class and be qualified to a minimum level of proficiency and knowledge of self defense laws.

The penalties for committing a crime with a gun, stealing a gun, black marketing, etc will be harsh, but not draconian. Just bad enough to make most sane people think twice.

That way all the legal guns will be accounted for, all of them will be secure, unless they are being carried, all the legal carriers will be vetted, we'll have a great national force of non-felons armed with M4s.

Or, we could not do anything, save billions and focus on something actually helpful.

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Old December 27, 2012, 10:38 PM   #222
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Quote:
NAF is not a tax. It's a registration fee. Just like the USE tax the Washington State Govt. tries to screw me over with isn't a sales tax. They can call it whatever they want, if they call it the right thing, then it's "ok"
Actually, the NFA "fee" is a TAX and intentionally so... The "act" was passed to thwart the gangsters from using machine guns and other such arms in crime...

if caught with one that didn't have a "tax stamp" assigned than you faced something they knew they could win in court with... and federal at that... The only crime many gangsters were charged with and lost in court... TAX EVASION...

And at $200 per gun... only the wealthy could afford to own them...

Brent
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Old December 27, 2012, 10:42 PM   #223
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Somehow I don't think that is going to work. I don't believe that tens of millions of people are going to run out and register their guns, provide photo ID fingerprints and whatnot.
I shudder to think what the cost of such a program would be, and how many decades it would take to process all the paperwork.

If there's to be a national buyback, consider the crippling tax burden. These are exactly the provisions I want kept in any proposed bill, as they will utterly cripple its chances of passage.
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Old December 27, 2012, 10:53 PM   #224
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I agree with others who feel that Feinstein's bill has been drawn very broadly to provide portions to bargain away for the main thrust, AWB, restricted magazine capacity and an end to the so-called "gun show" loophole ... I also agree that it's almost impossible to imagine what would be involved in the registration portion ... I'm also hoping that we can count on the House to provide a roadblock to this miserable excuse for a law ... however ... I don't think we'd be wise to discount the national emotion over this issue in the wake of Newtown .. the real problem, in my eyes, is the certainty that another mass shooting will happen again, and soon ... some psycho copycat is probably plotting one even now ... if that happens even the staunchest NRA supporter in Congress will lose their backbone when they're deluged with calls from the home front telling them they have to vote for a Feinstein-type law or start looking for an honest job ... we have a very bumpy road ahead; I'm stocking up on ammo now and looking at a few nice revolvers and a lever action carbine ... we have to realize that the 2A is under serious attack and may not survive as we have known it, especially if Obama gets to name a Scotus justice or two ...
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Old December 27, 2012, 11:15 PM   #225
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Isn't this essentially trying to tax them out of existence? If they all become NFA, isn't there like a $200 fee for each gun? I would have to get rid of 1/2 my collection, there's no way I could afford to pay $200 for each gun that falls in there. I don't want to even think of the bill for the bigger collectors...
Ah, but that was always the point of the NFA. I suspect that even in the midst of the Great Depression and New Deal, the drafters of the NFA knew that they'd be on shaky Constitutional ground with an outright ban, so instead they chose to regulate so heavily as to create a de facto ban. As bad as $200 per gun sounds in today's dollars, it would have been a small fortune in 1934 dollars (the amount has not changed). Adjusted for inflation, $200 in 1934 would be roughly equivalent to $3,300 in 2011.
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