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Old December 17, 2012, 11:24 PM   #76
Tom Servo
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wasn't the Clinton AWB the result of the California school play yard where some whackjob used an AK47?
The ball started rolling with the 1989 Stockton shooting, which is what I think you're recalling. That resulted in the formalization of the semiauto import ban during the Bush administration. It also inspired the Roberto-Roos act in California, which was a model for the AWB.
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Old December 17, 2012, 11:41 PM   #77
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What can we do?

I mean that literally, not facetiously. I understand I may contact my legislators but I would like to see a proper,vetted, form letter so I don't come off as a nut or say something foolish.

I see a few pro-gun legislators seem to have backed off and are bowing to the pressure.

I'm curious when the NRA will come out and say something and give a little leadership.
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Old December 17, 2012, 11:52 PM   #78
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Dear Representative _______,

Like all other Americans, I am shocked to the core by the recent shooting in Connecticut. I can understand the pressure that any leader feels to address such a tragedy.

However, HB ___ does not provide the answers we need. A ban on ____ was enacted in 1994. In the ten years it was in effect, it was shown by numerous sources, both private and governmental, to have had no measurable effect on violent crime. The only result was to restrict the rights of law-abiding gun owners.

The Supreme Court has made the scope of the 2nd Amendment clear. It guarantees individual citizens the right to self-defense with weapons in common use. The ____ is such a weapon. A ban on it runs counter to the spirit of the Constitution and serves only to punish millions of citizens who have no intention of using it to inflict violence.

I'm sure you'll agree that we cannot abrogate the rights of the many for the sins of a few.

For these reasons, I urge you to vote against HB ____. On behalf of myself and your other constitutents, I thank you for taking the time to consider my concerns.
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Old December 18, 2012, 12:06 AM   #79
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Thanks!
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Old December 18, 2012, 02:55 AM   #80
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Thanks Tom. I will pass this to others who may be hesitant because they do not have the "words" like myself
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Old December 18, 2012, 03:07 AM   #81
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I have a question that maybe someone can help me understand. After watching Piers Morgan and Oreily this weekend it is obvious that the big players in the media is not on our side. It is so far from middle ground reporting it is sickening. My question is why has this happened. Shouldn't the media understand the importance of the 2A. Freedom of speech is the foundation of what they do. Wouldn't actions against the 2A give precedence that something could be done to freedom of speech.

It seems like the people that should be one of our strongest allies have become one of our worst enemies. How can piers Morgan not see that the same arguments he uses against guns may one day be used against him.

I am assuming it boils down to who signs their paychecks

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Old December 18, 2012, 03:51 AM   #82
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"The Supreme Court has made the scope of the 2nd Amendment clear. It guarantees individual citizens the right to self-defense with weapons in common use."

Where exactly does this common use language come up? Heller or McDonald?
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Old December 18, 2012, 04:14 AM   #83
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TennJed,

You act like the media understands that your ability to have the freedom of press, speech, religion, etc comes from your right to keep and bear arms... which in turn stems from your inherent economic rights and individual rights of choice.

They don't understand.
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Old December 18, 2012, 04:22 AM   #84
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Where exactly does this common use language come up? Heller or McDonald?
Heller if I recall correctly.
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Old December 18, 2012, 04:52 AM   #85
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While I live in a very "liberal" state (Washington) there are a huge number of residents on both sides of the isle that are pro gun. We have a very reasonable right to carry law and have just recently gotten Olympia to permit the ownership and use of sound suppressors. Before you could own a suppressor and even mount it on your weapon, you just couldn't shoot with it... go figure the logic of that law.

Gun ownership of all types of firearms is popular here. While they may press for draconian laws in DC they might find weak support from the very states that helped keep the current administration in office. The tragic events in Connecticut are enough to make one understand people's need to take some sort of action. The action needed is just the opposite of what the average non gun owner might consider necessary.

All schools should be closed campuses once school starts until it ends. There are a ton of retired police officers and military that I'm certain they could find individuals willing to train and provide armed security on school campuses.

Information should be free flowing between medical facilities and the folks doing background checks. If a mental institution knows that Joe Blow was diagnosed certifiably whacko they should share that information. Then even if he lies on the forms when attempting to purchase a firearm he would be turned down.

The multitude of laws currently in place are more than adequate if properly enforced and even then murders will occur.

The shooter was evil folks, mentally ill and evil. There will always be evil people on this old earth. Ball bats, knives, explosives and such, if someone wants to harm others bad enough it doesn't take a gun. In fact a gun in the right hands might have put an end to the miserable punk that murdered so many children. At the very least an armed staff member might have bought time enough for the police to respond and put an end to it all.
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Old December 18, 2012, 06:29 AM   #86
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By changing demographics, I am referring to the American population in general.... not just the demographics of gun owners. The average American is quickly becoming a minority.

We now look toward the government as our parent. It is in our DNA now. If the government wants to restrict our guns or the size of our sodas, we accept it.

and all I'm hearing is "why does anyone want or need an AK???". Then they go on to say, "what next? are we going to demand the right to own nukes?".
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Old December 18, 2012, 06:53 AM   #87
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My local news is now showing this:

The NRA has fallen silent and taken their web site down.

Dicks Sporting Goods has removed "certain types of rifles" off their shelves.

California has re-started a gun buy back program ($200 per gun).... so everyone is turning in their broken junk for $200..... and so many are turning their rifles in that California is having to look for funding sources to pay for all the guns.
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Old December 18, 2012, 07:50 AM   #88
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If you really want to have your voice heard BEFORE a vote contact your Senators and Congressmen and voice your opinion. After a vote.....won't matter one bit. Time is now to act. Later it will just be bitching that someone did'nt do their part.
I agree the time to contact your representatives is now, the anti gun people are pushing and we should be pushing back standing up for our rights. If we don't we may all end up shooting bolt action 223's
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Old December 18, 2012, 07:56 AM   #89
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The NRA has fallen silent and taken their web site down.
What is this?


http://programs.nra.org/
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Old December 18, 2012, 08:09 AM   #90
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I believe another point is that an AWB will hurt the economy as well. How many businesses like Rock River Arms, Stag, Windham Weaponry, Les Baer etc will be forced out of business ? More people out of work, less people paying taxes. More welfare, medicaid, food stamps etc. Two big items for Obama is the economy and health care. Putting businesses out of business would be bad for both.
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Old December 18, 2012, 08:28 AM   #91
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The NRA has fallen silent and taken their web site down.
In what fantasy land? That's some pretty serious misinformation....
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Old December 18, 2012, 08:36 AM   #92
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Some of the media giants are commenting on the NRA's "silence" since last Friday, and apparently some folks are biting.
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Old December 18, 2012, 11:31 AM   #93
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I believe another point is that an AWB will hurt the economy as well. How many businesses like Rock River Arms, Stag, Windham Weaponry, Les Baer etc will be forced out of business ? More people out of work, less people paying taxes. More welfare, medicaid, food stamps etc. Two big items for Obama is the economy and health care. Putting businesses out of business would be bad for both.
I've thought of this too. Lots of American based jobs would go up in smoke. Lots of business owners would lose revenue. Honestly though I don't think they give one damn about forcing people into one of the most depressing and humiliating places on earth, the unemployment line.
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Old December 18, 2012, 12:06 PM   #94
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The real story...

Quote:
The NRA has fallen silent and taken their web site down.
This is incorrect.

The NRA has not taken their website down; they have deactivated and removed all the content from their main Facebook page and have not been using their Twitter feed.

Several of their secondary Facebook pages have not had any new posts since Friday or earlier, although they're technically still active.
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Old December 18, 2012, 12:28 PM   #95
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Where exactly does this common use language come up? Heller or McDonald?
Heller.

Quote:
We think that Miller’s “ordinary military equipment” language must be read in tandem with what comes after: “[O]rdinarily when called for [militia] service [able-bodied] men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. The traditional militia was formed from a pool of men bringing arms “in common use at the time” for lawful purposes like self-defense. “In the colonial and revolutionary war era, [small-arms] weapons used by militiamen and weapons used in defense of person and home were one and the same.” [p. 52]
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Old December 18, 2012, 02:17 PM   #96
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The NRA has not taken their website down; they have deactivated and removed all the content from their main Facebook page and have not been using their Twitter feed.

Several of their secondary Facebook pages have not had any new posts since Friday or earlier, although they're technically still active.
I think this move was a wise one. Sure, it's ceding the initial ground to the anti crowd, but let's think about it for a moment.

1) There's not one single thing the NRA can post that will not be taken as an insult to the grieving families. Best to sit back and not give any appearance of trying to benefit from the blood of the innocent; let the antis show their willingness to do that.

2) Their FB page would be overrun with hateful and even violent threats; there's no reason to have it as a sounding board for immature and foolish people for the time being. Let them cool down, then when their blood is not running so hot, reestablish the page for quality discussion.

3) The pro-ban folks are currently blowing a ton of steam... there's a few weeks before anything can be done by Congress, so by the time they reconvene, the NRA can pick back up. Emotion will have died down, and they can address the actual proposals being set forth in a logical and clear manner.

I do not think the NRA is shutting anything down permanently, they're showing restraint and respect, then in the new year, they'll be back working for us.
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Old December 18, 2012, 02:45 PM   #97
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Well said Technosavant, couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old December 18, 2012, 02:45 PM   #98
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I do not think the NRA is shutting anything down permanently, they're showing restraint and respect, then in the new year, they'll be back working for us.
Oh, they're still working for us. They've just shut down a couple of social media feeds for the time being.
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Old December 18, 2012, 02:54 PM   #99
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Hey Tom, about your form letter, can I make a suggestion? Change inflict violence to commit crimes. One could argue harvesting a deer and defending your home requires inflicting violence though neither is a crime. It's nitpicking, but best to not give any openings for being hoist on our own petard.
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Old December 18, 2012, 03:58 PM   #100
Tom Servo
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Hey Tom, about your form letter, can I make a suggestion? Change inflict violence to commit crimes
I guess I'm 50/50. "Commit crimes" sounds like it could include shoplifting. Maybe "commit violent crimes."

Hey, it works better than "Ur a communist fascist fer bannin' guns."

...which, unfortunately, I've seen.
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