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Old December 29, 2012, 08:50 PM   #251
wally626
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Tax bills have to start in the House, but the house has passed and sent to the Senate many bills that never go anywhere. All the Senate nees to do is take one, amend it to remove all the house language and add in the Senate language. This bill does have to be then passed by the house as the language has been changed.
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Old December 30, 2012, 04:40 AM   #252
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Wait so the Senate can arbitrarily change the language of a house bill and pass it as a house bill?

Am I missing something because I'm starting to feel like the crazy person in the room again
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Old December 30, 2012, 10:20 AM   #253
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Wait so the Senate can arbitrarily change the language of a house bill and pass it as a house bill?
Yes, they can but it then has to go back to the House because of the changes. A bill cannot go to the President until the House and Senate have both passed the same bill.
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Old December 30, 2012, 04:32 PM   #254
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What bothers me about this whole process is our governments lack of understanding about this whole issue. That AR-15 didn't kill anyone. A man who should have never had access to any firearm and was denied while attempting to purchase one did.

For example, if he had made a fertilizer bomb like Timothy McVeigh did; would we outlaw fertilizer?

If he set fire to the school using Gasoline and Matches; would we outlaw those?

To quote the late Jeff Cooper “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.”
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Old December 30, 2012, 04:46 PM   #255
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Again, it is not about solving the problem of violent, mass murder. It is about using a crisis to enact a change long wanted by the left. Disarmament of the law abiding populace to avoid resistance to widespread change in society, and loss of rights, and freedoms. It is about control.
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Old December 31, 2012, 02:11 AM   #256
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Refledting back on some prior psots, part of the bill is a tax on existing weapons, obviously intended as a confiscatory measure. But what about the total future bans? Don't they, not being tax billsm run afoul of the second amendment, as suggested by the AG in the hearings on the NFA?
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:16 AM   #257
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Feinstein Says Bushmaster can use Slide thing to make it full auto.

I watched Sen. Feinstein on Chris Wallace's show yesterday where she appeared alongside Sen. Lindsey Graham. She made a remark which I hadn't heard her make before and I wondered what she was referring to. She said that he Bushmaster .223 could use a slide thing to make it fully automatic. I believe that any semi auto gun which can be "easily" modified to become full auto is already covered and regulated by federal law, as well as some state laws.

Did anyone else hear her say that? If so, do you know what she was referring to? If she's correct and was not just tossing out misleading info, wouldn't any AR15 style rifle be able to implement the same sort of device and render them ALL as subject to regulation under already existing federal laws? I'm looking for some insight from some of the people who are more "in the know" than I happen to be.

Lindsey Graham said nothing about it. No questions, no rebuttal, nothing. He let it stand "as was said". I'm not a big fan of his, but he did at least have the guts to admit that he owns and AR-15.
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:19 AM   #258
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I didn't see the show, but I suspect that she was referring to something like the SlideFire stock. Here's the AR version: http://www.slidefire.com/products/ar-15

I haven't investigated this closely, but my understanding is that, once installed, it slides back and forth, allowing for very rapid, although ultimately still semiautomatic, fire.
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:26 AM   #259
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Here is the Feinstein statement taken directly from the transcript from Chris Wallace's show on Sunday.

Quote:
But I think having a system where these very powerful weapons -- as a matter of fact, the Bushmaster has a legal slide you can put on it to make it fully automatic. And just pump out slews of bullets and it gives --
So what is this "legal slide" she's talking about? Is she off her rocker? Is she using misinformation for low information voters to fool them? I've never heard of such a "legal slide". What do other folks think about this?

Mods, should we start a new thread? This could get lost in the minutiae of the fact the statement came from Senator Feinstein. I'm looking for specific information about what she is referring to and why she'd bring something like this up if it was totally off base.
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:32 AM   #260
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She doesn't know techy stuff and is probably told you can get a full auto upper at Home Depot.

Anyway - we don't want a multitude of threads.

Here's an interesting take:

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/1...592_Page3.html

It's New Year's resolutions on how each party can get it's act together. I don't care about the other suggestions but one is for the Democrats NOT to offend gun owners as after the uproar dies down, gun rights are still supported in this country by quite a few.

It falls in line with the predictions that clever pols won't commit political suicide by going for a Full Monty Feinstein. We will see.

I know this is just a touch political but I offer it informationally.
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:34 AM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats McGee
I didn't see the show, but I suspect that she was referring to something like the SlideFire stock.
I saw the program and I imagine that you are correct.

This is another of those "barrel shroud" moments.
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:35 AM   #262
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Maybe she is talking about bump firing?

In answer to question number three all politicians are pretty much the same in that regard.
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:36 AM   #263
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Has to be the slide-fire stock that she is referring to. It doesn't actually make it full auto, it still fires once per trigger pull, but it will simulate full auto. It's a range toy, and there is no evidence that one has ever been used in a crime, and why would you? It only works if you hold it just right and you can't hit anything with it, so...
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:36 AM   #264
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Yeah, in this case, it really does look like it's that "shoulder thingy that goes up" back and forth.
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:46 AM   #265
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Spats McGee posted:
Quote:
I didn't see the show, but I suspect that she was referring to something like the SlideFire stock.
I would tend to agree that the SlideFire must have been what she was referring to. I had not seen that product before. To us technically savy folks, we know the gun is still firing "semi auto". However, to the "low information" types, they'll see that video, played by our anti gun media of course, as a conversion from semi auto to full auto. Feinstein, Schumer, Durbin, Obama, et. al. will not hesitate to set that video up with the MSM to make it sound as if there is a legal product to turn an AR15 type firearm, or a semi auto AK47 type firearm, into a full auto machine gun. They'll conveniently forget to mention that the BATFE approved of it, other than the qualifier she already used, "legally". Once she introduces her bill, I fully expect to see this device become part of the debate.
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:49 AM   #266
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One should support those gadgets as good gun control. A friend of mine put one of those thingees on his AR and it jammed solid as the Rock of Gilbraltar. Another buddy - an engineer - had to heat in a furnance and pound it on an anvil to get it apart (metaphorically). It was a mess.
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:52 AM   #267
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Quote:
A friend of mine put one of those thingees on his AR and it jammed solid as the Rock of Gilbraltar.
That echoes the experience I've seen people have with them. They're silly range toys, but I doubt we'll ever see one used in a crime.

If we did, it might actually save a few lives.
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:54 AM   #268
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Glenn E. Meyer posted:
Quote:
A friend of mine put one of those thingees on his AR and it jammed solid as the Rock of Gilbraltar. Another buddy - an engineer - had to heat in a furnance and pound it on an anvil to get it apart (metaphorically). It was a mess.
Good info to help gun owners check deeper into these devices prior to spending hard earned money on them, if they are prone to failure and making things into more expensive messes.

However, from the political angle, those things will never be mentioned to the public at large. The truth is what the media determines it to be, unfortunately.

That's why the witness oath in a court of law states: I promise to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth, and NOTHING BUT the truth, so help me God. Those are suttle but important words in that oath.
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Old December 31, 2012, 11:59 AM   #269
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Tom Servo posted:
Quote:
That echoes the experience I've seen people have with them. They're silly range toys, but I doubt we'll ever see one used in a crime.
We did see full auto's used in a crime known as "The North Hollywood Bank Robbery". That despite a very strict regulation of full auto firearms. We know that Sen. Feinstein is barking up the wrong tree with respect to gun control equaling crime/criminal control. But it's her tree and she's committed to seeing it nurtured and growing.
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Old December 31, 2012, 12:07 PM   #270
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As far as I can tell from reading around and watch a little of the news it is only the politicians who are supporting this... I have yet to see any news that was antigun or even said the old 94-04 ban did anything.

The only thing I have been seeing has been quotes from politicians that have been shot down.

As of right now the support for any gun law changes seems rather low.
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Old December 31, 2012, 12:11 PM   #271
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For example, if he had made a fertilizer bomb like Timothy McVeigh did; would we outlaw fertilizer?
Not the best example as we did put limits on fertilizer that trip red flags. Buy too much and the feds will come inquiring.
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Old December 31, 2012, 12:13 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFNoDak
We did see full auto's used in a crime known as "The North Hollywood Bank Robbery".
That also seems an excellent example of Lapierre's observation that the best remedy for a bad guy with a rifle is a good guy with a rifle.
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Old December 31, 2012, 12:18 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummer101
As of right now the support for any gun law changes seems rather low.
I'm not suggesting we get over confident, or let our guard down, but I believe that everyday that goes by, the farther we get from new anti-gun legislation being enacted.
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Old December 31, 2012, 12:48 PM   #274
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Quote:
For example, if he had made a fertilizer bomb like Timothy McVeigh did; would we outlaw fertilizer?
Quote:
Not the best example as we did put limits on fertilizer that trip red flags. Buy too much and the feds will come inquiring.
It must be a hell of a lot. I've bought ten tons and more at a time (which is FAR, FAR more than was used at OKC) and no Feds showed up. I was actually using it for fertilizer, in case inquiring minds want to know.
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Old December 31, 2012, 04:05 PM   #275
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It must be a hell of a lot. I've bought ten tons and more at a time (which is FAR, FAR more than was used at OKC) and no Feds showed up. I was actually using it for fertilizer, in case inquiring minds want to know.
Shortly before the Sandy Hook incident, I was doing some research into OKC and the aftermath. Although there were supposed to be restriction put in place, to red flag suspicious purchases, and create a method for tracking purchases... it never really happened.

Only 2 states have any tracking methods currently in place, 'tracking' consists of just copying down the buyer's name/address/quantity/etc, and each county within those states is very spotty with compliance.

There were also supposed to be micro taggants mixed into ammonium nitrate, by the manufacturers, to allow tracing of any used in a bombing. To date, no manufacturer is including taggants in their fertilizer (or even their explosives, if they make both).



Honestly....
It's a lot like "gun control" laws. Lots of talk. A little 'action'. ...and then nothing gets enforced; due to lack of funding, lack of education, or the fact that it's a stupid, ineffective approach to the matter.
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