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Old December 16, 2012, 03:58 PM   #1
Shane Tuttle
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Well, the BOX Said Independence Ammunition...

I bought some factory ammo from ammotogo.com a couple of weeks ago. I know, I know. I'm a pretty die hard reloader. For various reasons, I still buy factory ammo. I like to compare factory to my own reloads and sometimes instructed courses will not allow reloads. On top of that, I have a firearm that prefers factory.

So, I ordered ammo I had the best luck on using its brass. I had a case sitting on my doorstep in just a couple of weeks. I love using Independence brass because it feels just soft enough when resizing to be forgiving, priming is a dream, and I haven't had to cull one yet due to cracks. The anal retentive in me warrants taking the ammo out of the original boxes and repackaging them in plastic MTM cases. Upon doing that, I notice the headstamp is different. Independence is...or was, '*I*'. This batch was labeled 'Blazer'.

Does Blazer now own Independence ammo or vice versa?
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Old December 16, 2012, 04:16 PM   #2
Misssissippi Dave
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IIRC Independance is owned by AKT which also owns Speer, Federal, Blazer, CCI and probably some others. In my opinion all good ammo.
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Old December 16, 2012, 04:19 PM   #3
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I recently shot some Independence ammunition in my 9mm and it too was Blazer headstamp brass.
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Old December 16, 2012, 04:22 PM   #4
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Blazer

The same thing happened to me a few months ago. I bought 500 rounds of 9mm as well as some other calibers and received Blazer. I've heard everything ranging from they're reloads, to they (Blazer, Independence, Federal,) are all owned by the same company. But it's all information I got from the internet so it must be true.. As long as I can reload it I don't care..

Last edited by Sitex31; December 16, 2012 at 04:25 PM. Reason: Grammar correction
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Old December 16, 2012, 04:42 PM   #5
Shane Tuttle
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I don't think I'll have any problems with Blazer brass. I was just disappointed. One of those things where you're at your favorite restaurant and was looking forward to that homemade meatloaf dinner with all the fixins. You place your order with the server, only to find out they 86ed on meatloaf. *sigh*

But they still have the meanest chicken fried steak, though...

Glad I'm not the only one that experienced this. I was beginning to wonder if lots were "mishandled".
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Old December 16, 2012, 07:29 PM   #6
Misssissippi Dave
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I've loaded a lot of Winchester, Federal and Blazer brass. It all works. As long as the brass is good I'm happy. I don't think you are going to have any problems loading it. I've never hand any problems shooting Independence or Blazer brass ammo.
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Old December 16, 2012, 07:39 PM   #7
m&p45acp10+1
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Blazer brass is reloadable. It works just fine. Some of the .45 ACP have small primers. Other than that they seem to work just fine. I have not had any split on me yet.

I almost thought that Independence were reloads. I am thinking it must be a different company than the one I am thinking of. Some one showed up at the range with a bunch of boxes of it in American Flag looking boxes. They were mixed head stamp. They shot just fine for him.
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Old December 17, 2012, 02:27 AM   #8
Sevens
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Independence is the budget brand of ATK. If I had to hazard a guess, I would suggest that they use blem bullets from their proper factory brands. Those being Federal, Speer, CCI and American Eagle. Or blem Speer component bullet products.

I had always thought it was kind of silly to produce yet another head stamp for what was essentially a budget brand, but yeah, they do use the *I* head stamp.

I know that Federal has two distinctly different brass sources...I believe that one of them is "good old" Federal that's been in operation for decades and the other is something newer, likely from the ATK acquisition. Consider this-- Federal 9mm brass comes in two totally and noticeably different forms.

You've got the stuff that seems most common, the extruded brass that says .F C. on it, and that extruded brass looks exactly like the Blazer and CCI marked brass. The case head where the stamping is seems a bit rounded and the font is soft and each of the three different names look like they came from the same printing device.

But then you've got the classic larger font FC stamped 9mm brass that is not extruded. I believe these two absolutely different Federal 9mm brass pieces come from entirely different operations.

Why, considering just that by itself, does ATK also need *I* stamped brass?

I don't know...and maybe ATK has been saying the same thing. My guess is that there was a huge supply of *I* brass and they simply produced from that supply until it ran out and now they are just using the Blazer marked brass and not making any more *I* brass.

Remember, these guys also own the Lake City facility, Alliant powders, CCI primers and the entire catalog of Speer/RCBS/Weaver and the former Blount companies. Among God knows what else.

If there is a monopoly in ammo or components, ATK has to be by far the closest thing to that.

So if they killed off the *I* head stamp... they've still got a half dozen others and some I've probably forgotten!
Quote:
On top of that, I have a firearm that prefers factory.
Not to "call you out" or anything, but I can't even grasp this concept. Perhaps I'm missing something, but -MY- firearms don't get to offer their opinion as I'm in charge of their diet. I've got a slew of rimfire that eats factory ammo, but nothing else does unless I'm testing defense ammo for carry.
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Old December 17, 2012, 02:33 AM   #9
Sevens
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Quote:
I almost thought that Independence were reloads. I am thinking it must be a different company than the one I am thinking of. Some one showed up at the range with a bunch of boxes of it in American Flag looking boxes. They were mixed head stamp. They shot just fine for him.
You are thinking of UltraMax. Independence and UltraMax use similar colored (and cheap cardboard) boxes. UltraMax is re-manufactured ammo, or "factory reloads." Comes from an established company but uses USED brass and often (not always) shows a wide array of headstamps in any given box.

I've heard of first-hand accounts of bad results with UltraMax, but I've never bought the stuff. A buddy of mine has bought a bunch of it and I've shot with him when he's burned through it with no problems, but another pal has seen the stuff act dangerously erratic on more than one occasion and I know the man well- he's trustworthy and I believe his account.

Some factory re-man is better than others. Remember that Black Hills ammo started life as re-man. I bought quite a bit of their blue box stuff in .38 Special and 10mm back in the day. $5.99 a box was fine price back in the late 80's.

I'm not even sure if Black Hills still does ANY re-man these days.
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Old December 17, 2012, 06:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
One of those things where you're at your favorite restaurant and was looking forward to that homemade meatloaf dinner with all the fixins. You place your order with the server, only to find out they 86ed on meatloaf. *sigh*
My wife, and I, spent 3 years trying to find a place in Utah that even knew what a stromboli was, let alone how to make one. When we finally found a restaurant that made them, we also discovered the best calamari around.
A month later, they took the stromboli off the menu (but it could still be ordered). A year later, on our bi-weekly trip to the restaurant, they refused our stromboli orders and had dropped the calamari. "The stromboli was too expensive and people thought the calamari was too creepy with the babies in it," the waitress said. (Yea. Sure... this wasn't a "high class" joint. The stromboli was $7 and the restaurant was sandwiched between an ice cream shop and a sports bar...)

That's what you get in a state whose signature dish is green jello and shredded carrots.


It's like Remington Bronze Points.
Tons of reloaders built loads around those bullets, only to have Remington pretty much abandon the bullet.
You were guaranteed to find some at your local reloading supply shop, any time you visited. The, suddenly, "poof!" they're all gone.
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Old December 17, 2012, 08:47 PM   #11
Shane Tuttle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens
Not to "call you out" or anything, but I can't even grasp this concept. Perhaps I'm missing something, but -MY- firearms don't get to offer their opinion as I'm in charge of their diet. I've got a slew of rimfire that eats factory ammo, but nothing else does unless I'm testing defense ammo for carry.
Ever fired a Kimber Solo with reloads?
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Old December 18, 2012, 01:56 PM   #12
Sevens
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I would look VERY much forward to the opportunity.

Sounds like a challenge!
Sign me up!
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Old December 18, 2012, 07:05 PM   #13
Shane Tuttle
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Guns like that are finicky. I have a gun similar to the Solo in regards to it liking only certain kinds of ammo. It eats all kinds of factory ammo. It never malfunctioned on me after dialing on on some reloading recipes. It's my wife's preferred SD firearm and we never did come up with a recipe for her. She's doing everything correctly that I can see as well as many other instructors' opinions. So, I gave up and decided to get her some factory ammo and be done with it.

She shoots all of our other guns with no problems using reloads.
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