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Old December 16, 2012, 08:40 AM   #1
Hal
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White House gun control petition tops 100k

Quote:
Immediately address the issue of gun control through the introduction of legislation in Congress.

The goal of this petition is to force the Obama Administration to produce legislation that limits access to guns. While a national dialogue is critical, laws are the only means in which we can reduce the number of people murdered in gun related deaths.

Powerful lobbying groups allow the ownership of guns to reach beyond the Constitution's intended purpose of the right to bear arms. Therefore, Congress must act on what is stated law, and face the reality that access to firearms reaches beyond what the Second Amendment intends to achieve.

The signatures on this petition represent a collective demand for a bipartisan discussion resulting in a set of laws that regulates how a citizen obtains a gun.
While some people may believe these petitions server no purpose, this one has gathered over 100,000 signatures so far.
According to the site, a petition needs to reach 150 signatures within 30 days to pass the first tier, and 25,000 signatures within 30 days to pass the second tier.
The above petition has reached 117,458 as of 8:33am.

The White House is supposed to respond once the petition has reached the second tier.
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Old December 16, 2012, 10:18 AM   #2
Glenn E. Meyer
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Before we panic (yet again) - here's a realistic take on the issue:

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/1...130.html?hp=t1

There are also petitions to build a Death Star.
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Old December 16, 2012, 10:31 AM   #3
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I've stated before that these petitions are useless. The whole setup is in place to give people a venue to vent and feel their voice is being heard. I can't recall a single major policy decision in this administration having stemmed from one of these petitions. Panem et circenses.

The Death Star might provide jobs, but imagine trying to insure something like that when uptight rebels keep coming along and trying to blow it up.
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Old December 16, 2012, 10:38 AM   #4
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I love the part where it said "laws are the only means to reduce the...."

Man...maybe we should just make a law against murder if they work that well...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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Old December 16, 2012, 10:44 AM   #5
Hal
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Glenn,
No panic is intended.
I don't think it's wise to pretend over 100,000 people are something to ignore though either.

None of the mainstream media is mentioning Death Star petitions.
ABC and CNN have been mentioning the gun control petition(s) though.

The signature count has also reached 116, 693 (my bad for the count in the opening post - it should have read 114, 458)
That's a little over 1,000 signatures an hour.

Quote:
I've stated before that these petitions are useless. The whole setup is in place to give people a venue to vent and feel their voice is being heard. I can't recall a single major policy decision in this administration having stemmed from one of these petitions
Always a first time for everything....
I'll reserve judgement on it until after the White House responds.
The rules there say a response is made after 25,000 signatures.
It'll be interesting to see how a response is crafted.

Last edited by Hal; December 16, 2012 at 10:50 AM.
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Old December 16, 2012, 11:01 AM   #6
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"There are also petitions to build a Death Star"

Right, and for a number of states to succeed from the Union. But if there was ever a Petition that would be near and dear to the POTUS' heart, it would be gun control. Some of his fellow party members are saying, as they like to say in Chicago, "We don't want to let this tragedy to go to waste." That is the sickest part.
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Old December 16, 2012, 11:02 AM   #7
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100,000 people is 0.03% of the populace.

There are 46 million households with firearms and over 100,000,000 firearms owners in America.

A whole lot more than 100,000 people are ignored every day.

I'd like to know of a single law/policy that can be attributed to one of those petitions.
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Old December 16, 2012, 11:06 AM   #8
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Here is my proposal...

1) shooting children should be made illegal
2) you should not be able to take guns into schools
3) we make theft of a firearms illegal

Lets petition for these things, right away.

Of course we all know those things are already illegal and that we can not legislate against lunacy.

Armed guards and tighter security is the answer. Its against the law to rob banks, but banks still have armed guards and tight security. If we can post armed guards to protect pieces of paper we say have value, then we can post armed guards to protect our children.
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Old December 16, 2012, 11:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate45 View Post
Armed guards and tighter security is the answer. Its against the law to rob banks, but banks still have armed guards and tight security. If we can post armed guards to protect pieces of paper we say have value, then we can post armed guards to protect our children.
Armed guards are part of a business model based on profit. Since schools are not profit based, funding comes from taxpayers who are not and have never been willing to pay the price for such things.
Many schools border on bankruptcy already. Armed guards are not a viable option.

My hometown school has 450-ish kids, K-12. Two buildings. Two armed guards, full time, plus part-time coverage, say 4 total, conservatively. Average salary of say 25k. That's $100,000. The entire population is only a couple thousand people. You'd be asking them to pay $500/person. A family of 4 would be paying $2,000 a year. No way that's happening.

"The answer", and I use that term loosely, as there is not "A" singular answer, is freedom.

Law abiding (which they are by definition) teachers, principals, janitors, librarians, secretaries, et al, shouldn't have to leave their rights to protect themselves at the edge of school property.
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Old December 16, 2012, 11:38 AM   #10
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Then if a school district/community can't afford extra personnel, or a police officer stationed at the school...



I didn't create the image above, I would exchange the word will, for might. If not preventing another tragedy, it certainly might shorten one.
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Old December 16, 2012, 11:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Law abiding (which they are by definition) teachers, principals, janitors, librarians, secretaries, et al, shouldn't have to leave their rights to protect themselves at the edge of school property
Thank you, Brian. And don't forget, kids should expect the same, or indeed better, level of safety than they do elsewhere.
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Old December 16, 2012, 11:43 AM   #12
Hal
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Ok guys - listen...

This isn't intended to be about schools, malls, death stars or the sky falling...
Please don't turn it into that.

There's a petition on the Whitehouse.gov website calling for the administation to produce legislation to limit access to guns.
As of right now. the pace has picked up.
In the last hour, the count went up to 118,205.
That's half again more than the previous rate = 1500 this past hour vs 1000 from 8:30 to 10:30.

Ignore, mock call it meaningless all you want.
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Old December 16, 2012, 11:46 AM   #13
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I don't think anyone is mocking you, Hal. There will be attempts at gun-control as a response to recent events.

However, I don't think we have to panic just yet... the petition itself is not the danger.
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Old December 16, 2012, 11:57 AM   #14
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Sparks,
Not me,,,but,,the Death Star comment wasn't real well recieved.
Sort of surprised me a bit since Glenn is about the last person I would have thought would toss something like that out.

To liken a petition calling for gun control to a petition about some fantasy movie prop is pretty close to mocking in my book.
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Old December 16, 2012, 12:12 PM   #15
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I believe the point Dr. Meyer was trying to make(correct me if I'm wrong) is that the petitions on the White House web site, are the equivalent of liking something on Facebook, etc. They carry no weight at all. If I'm wrong and they do, many States should be seceding anytime now and Death Star construction to counter them will commence very soon.

The Congress passes legislation, not the Executive branch. The House is not going to bring any gun legislation to the floor and Senate majority leader got an 80+% rating from the NRA. The SCOTUS has ruled that SD lies at the heart of the second amendment. Given just those three facts, its unlikely anything will happen, anytime soon. Especially on the basis of a meaningless petition.
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Old December 16, 2012, 12:19 PM   #16
Glenn E. Meyer
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No, sorry - if you took it that way.

What I meant was that I think these petitions are meaningless in the long term. There is a real battle that will take time.

We've seen this sort of thing before and when the news cycle spins, the impetus will fade.

I apologize for seeming insulting when I meant to be cynical.

After a cooling down period, the more pragmatic politicos will realize that the country in general is moving towards less gun restrictions. That won't change, IMHO. The pockets of high anti fervor will stay the same. Bloomberg, McCarthy, etc. will be on the TV. They will not be convincing to folks outside of their realm.

For example, the NY Times has an op-ed calling for the mandatory turn in of EBRS and semis. So how is that going to happen?

Given the SCOTUS decisions, such a law (which wouldn't be passed anyway) would start numerous court challenges which would take years.

Where is the money coming from for such a program and compensation. It would take billions to fund. Such funding can be frozen in the House and Senate for ages. We are going broke giving Meds to Grandma. Coming across with money for guns? How?

Thus, I regard such petitions as theatre and not a real threat. The naive passage of the AWB is from a bygone age. Yep, I know Wayne would be mad at me for saying this and I appreciate their work to protect the RKBA. And thanks for my third NRA knife I just got for renewal.

Again, no offense meant.
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Old December 16, 2012, 12:48 PM   #17
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Glenn,
Understood.
Apology accepted - but - only on the grounds that you accept my apology for reading more into it than was there & not contacting you off line.
We've been friends here at TFL far too long to let it be an issue.


While I do lean towards the idea that those petitions are - how was it put,,,similar to "liking" something on facebook,,,
It's hard to ignore the propaganda value of that many signatures in such a short time.
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Old December 16, 2012, 12:56 PM   #18
Glenn E. Meyer
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We are just fine.

Glenn
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Old December 16, 2012, 01:05 PM   #19
Gary L. Griffiths
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We've all been wary of Obama.

Now's the time when we'll see if he is the gun control disaster we've been afraid of, or a paper tiger. The horrific Sandy Hook shootings and the resultant 100K+ petition will create the perfect cover for him to push for an assault weapons and/or hi-cap magazine ban. True, he doesn't initiate legislation, but he has plenty of lackeys in Congress to do his bidding. Will he truly lobby for such measures or attempt to institute rule changes making "assault weapons" NFA items, or will he wimp out a la George Bush, saying "If Congress crafts legislation banning assault weapons I will (cough cough) sign it into law."

Time will tell.
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Old December 16, 2012, 01:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L. Griffiths
While I do lean towards the idea that those petitions are - how was it put,,,similar to "liking" something on facebook,,,
It's hard to ignore the propaganda value of that many signatures in such a short time.
I apologize if my posts had any sort of tone as well. Your thread is worthy of discussion and not foolish in any way. You are certainly correct, that the anti-firearms propaganda machine, is ramped up to full force. I just wanted to express my belief that our old friends, logic, reason, calm and respect for the victims over political ideology, will carry us through this. I felt this thread would be the only appropriate place to express that sentiment, without directly discussing the recent tragedy. Sorry for the thread drift.
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Old December 16, 2012, 01:38 PM   #21
Glenn E. Meyer
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The petition isn't really needed by the antis. The usual proposers of such legislation have announced that they will submit the bills again. All over the news. As they did before.

Would any sitting president sign it (let's not get political) - if it suits them - sure. What else is new? To get to the Pres., the progun forces would have to cave.

Have to go now. Everyone be good!

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Old December 16, 2012, 01:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post

There are also petitions to build a Death Star.
It seems that Sheik Abdul Hussein beat us to it.

See the bottom of the page here: http://www.thegeektwins.com/2010/07/...l#.UM4V0azC3Io




Now, as has been pointed out, the petition actually forms a mechanism to "give the populace a voice in the governance" that is supposed to be the role of the House of Representatives. What we're seeing is that the House is so utterly disconnected from the electorate that the Executive can appeal directly to the masses.
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Old December 16, 2012, 02:01 PM   #23
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If you are that worried about it, start a petition to improve mental health care including screenings and treatment.
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Old December 16, 2012, 02:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepstrapped View Post
If you are that worried about it, start a petition to improve mental health care including screenings and treatment.
This actually makes sense.
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Old December 16, 2012, 02:10 PM   #25
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Quote:
This actually makes sense
... which increases the probability of it not happening.
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