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Old August 15, 2012, 11:22 PM   #1
bulletproof
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5.56-.223 Mags & First AR

Hi,
I'm just deciding I want to get an AR while I still can. I haven't followed them so I'm pretty ignorant on this subject, this should qualify any questions I might ask, such as this one.
A little history might be called for here. I'm looking to spend a paltry $700 range. The reason for the low price range is I'm old, and also don't have a lot to spend, and since I've got one foot in the grave, and the other foot on a banana peel, I thought an inexpensive model would work for me. I'm currently eying a Doublestar, I was also looking at Del-ton, and DPMS, which I'd not heard of these 3 before, so I don't know which is quality or not, other than basing it on price.? I saw these 2 mentioned in an old thread I viewed, PSA and Spikes, and I just wondered what they are exactly? I plan to get a 5.56 so I can shoot .223 also, when the occasion arises.

And, a day or 2 ago, I got to wondering if the 5.56 & the .223 magazines are interchangeable, or would I need separate mags for each? I'm pretty sure there's some here that can shed some light on this subject and my questions.? Thanks in advance.
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Old August 15, 2012, 11:43 PM   #2
Quentin2
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5.56 and .223 ammo both work fine in AR magazines.

It's hard for me to recommend a $700 AR, I think it's wise to buy something a little better. But if that's all you can go then look at the S&W M&P-15 Sport.
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Old August 16, 2012, 07:06 AM   #3
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PSA or Palmetto State Armory has great pricing on quality AR's. They are mail order only if not local. If you are going to buy local then the S&W is a nice AR for the money.

The 5.56 and .223 are essentially the same physical size. The 5.56 round well normally run your AR better than the .223 ammo, but you can shoot either one.

Keep the nitro pills close and have fun.
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Old August 16, 2012, 08:27 AM   #4
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Don't buy any "off brand" AR's.
Put your money into a brand that has a decent reputation.

I can't recommend anything more than that.
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Old August 16, 2012, 08:42 AM   #5
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Look into the S&W M&P sport with the Melonite treated barrel. Magpul Pmags are probably your best bet, otherwise Brownells has some nice aluminum mags
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Old August 16, 2012, 03:23 PM   #6
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1) Thanks for ur replies. Thanks for the PSA link. Bud's & CTDrt, are the only 2 places I know with good pricing. Any more links with good pricing is appreciated? I was wanting a S&W M&P but most are outta my price range. I've looked at the S&W M&P-15 Sport at Bud's, but they only have it with the Calif restrictive 10 round mag. And, CTD don't list one.

2) I had hopes of finding something with iron sights as well as putting a scope on what I eventually buy, like I have on my Rem. 700, 30-06, with the rings I can look thru if the scope fails. I also am not very familiar with these new scopes, red dots, how far they project, etc. But, can you even use iron sights and scopes together on AR's? Or, is it one or the other?

3) Could ya'll take a look at a couple rifles I've looked at at Bud's and tell me if these 2 Bushmasters is a reliable mfg. co.?and what you think of these 2 rifles?

A) http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/69657

B) http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...22+OPTIC+READY
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Old August 16, 2012, 03:46 PM   #7
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My local gunshop has plenty of Colt 6920's for $1050.00. Colt is the standard by which all AR15's are judged.

I'd strongly suggest you wait, save a bit more and get a mil spec Colt. They've been making AR's for our armed forces since the early sixties, are worth the $ difference and hold their value.

Lifetime warranty is also good piece of mind. (But you won't need it.)

Good luck, let us know what you decide to do.
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Old August 16, 2012, 05:41 PM   #8
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I can't comment on the Bushmaster as I've never owned one or shot one. They tend to get up and down reviews since the Cerebrus buy out a while back. Windham Weaponry is the "new" Bushmaster and was started by the guy that started Bushmaster who bought his old factory back and hired most of his staff back.

If you get something without optics and a railed gas block, plan on getting an iron sight which can be pricy. Minimum $100 for a front and rear on the cheap end.

Others have recommended the Smith M&P Sport and I'll back that 100%. I have the M&P OR and it's been an outstanding AR. If you look around, you may be able to find out for about $600. It's worth the search.

As for Palmetto and Spikes, both are also great companies. I have a Spike's AR that I built with a Palmetto lower build kit. It's just as much fun as my M&P is to shoot but came with a front sight block.

Best of luck in your search!
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Old August 16, 2012, 06:00 PM   #9
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well FN does make the barrels for Palmetto an i love mine an you really can't beat them. they are around the same price as the S&W sports an PSA's come with the dust cover an foward assist, also that 1-7" twist barrel too for heavier hunting loads.
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Old August 16, 2012, 11:29 PM   #10
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I would recommend a s&w m&p15 sport. Great rifle for the money.
If you have the time, I will recommend that you build your first ar, there isn't a better way to learn about your rifle.
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Old August 17, 2012, 01:24 AM   #11
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Coltman 77: Lifetime warranty is also good piece of mind. (But you won't need it.) That sounds like something I'd say, love it!

I really like the S&W's, & the sport is more in my price range, but PSA is out of stock right now. Maybe I can find one. Can ya'll recommend any more good places to search?

Although I'd like to, I don't have time to build. Remember, got one foot on banana peel.

Thanks for your replies, Keep'em coming.
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Old August 17, 2012, 02:17 AM   #12
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I have a Doublestar, and it is a wonderful rifle. Never had a problem that was caused by the rifle (bad mags have caused a few), and the rifle is very accurate! You would not be disappointed with one!

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Old August 17, 2012, 10:21 AM   #13
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I have both a dpms and a RRA rifle both I love the RRA weighs so much more though, The dpms was a cheaper rifle sub 700 bucks if memory serves the RRA was over 1000 I know that for sure. The dpms had a few bad runs to start but that was due to the cheap crappy al. ones they came with, literally the whole mag broke apart while in the gun, the welds busted and the bottom came out and no I was abusing them, the LGS I got the rifle from was even surprised as I was on his range shooting the moment I purchased it. So I got swapped for magpul and never looked back.

I brought that all up to point out cheap mags can and will cause issues, I have seen it on everything you can think of at my Leo range. Our range master trys all sorts of things to see what should or could be used safely. He figured out a long time ago and it is very true pay for quality and it should never fail you. Same reason I dont suggest those cheap 25 dollar red dots for anything over a 22lr. Again this is all my opinion but I find my self shooting my DPMS more the RRA and it has not failed me as of yet from a actual gun related failure.

The one thing I do try to get all my friends to get is the 5.56 chamber since that is a higher pressure round then the standard 223, I feel it gives you some protection against a bad round from the factory or if you reload. Hope this rambling helps out.
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Old August 17, 2012, 05:14 PM   #14
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I just crossed the same bridge, started my budget at $800.

Did a LOT of shopping around, settled higher, but am DAMN satisfied with my purchase.

I ended up just a little > $1k for the rifle, got a S&W M&P, but did not go sport, got the forward assist and port cover, will eat 5.56 and .223.
If you look at the sport next to the one I purchased, there is a visible and a tactile diference

Have 5 magpull polly 30 round mags, one with target 55gr ammo, the other four 75gr BTHP.

It was a hard call to blow the budget, but there is a HUGE line between the $800 and $1k range.

I cannot speak for the quality of the guns below that range, some are highly spoken of, and some of them felt nice to hold, but the line between "glad I own it" and "proud to" left me looking up a couple hundred.
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Old August 17, 2012, 05:52 PM   #15
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For some reason I wasn't notified in my email about the last 2 posts here. I just returned here to ask another question.

While looking at the S&W M&P tactical website, I noticed that some of the M&P's such as the Sport says 5.56 mm NATO, and others like the M&P15 say 5.56 mm NATO / .223. Why is that?
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Old August 17, 2012, 06:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletproof View Post
For some reason I wasn't notified in my email about the last 2 posts here. I just returned here to ask another question.

While looking at the S&W M&P tactical website, I noticed that some of the M&P's such as the Sport says 5.56 mm NATO, and others like the M&P15 say 5.56 mm NATO / .223. Why is that?
Possibly because people who are looking at the higher end models are already aware that an AR chambered for 5.56 will also fire .223 and did not want to restate it, but wanted to state so on their entry level guns so that those who are just getting into the AR game will understand that it can handle both.

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Old August 17, 2012, 06:52 PM   #17
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5.56 will shoot 223 also, but not the other way around. Most AR's are chambered for 5.56 for this reason.

Get a Sport. Mine is great.
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Old August 17, 2012, 07:59 PM   #18
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Buy once, cry one. Stack a few more quarters up and get something from one of the many top-notch manufacturers out there.
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Old August 17, 2012, 08:12 PM   #19
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I have AR's from Bushmaster, Olympic, S&W, Delton(DTI), RRA, CMMG, homebrew, and even a COLT. For 99% of the users, any of them will suffice.
I'm not so young myself and don't put much stock in logo ego.
My constant wintertime companion is a Delton and it's never let me down. Out side every day. Snow, cold, wet or whatever comes-it still looks good and shoots as well as I would expect from a 16" w/1-5x scope.
Midway USA has a special on a 16" carbine upper that ships to your door. Pick a namebrand lower and push the pins in and you're ready to go. Unless your eyes are holding up better than mine, you should go for a flattop so you can mount optics.
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Old August 17, 2012, 08:37 PM   #20
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I will recommend the S&W M&P 15 Sport. $650 and comes with sites. Ready to shoot out of the box. I just picked one up a couple weeks back for much of the same reasons you have mentioned. I want to get one while I still can and didn't want to spend a lot of money.

Took it out and shot it this last weekend. Put 120 rounds of steel cased tulammo through it without a hiccup. Ordered a couple of 20 round mags from 44mag.com which were cheap and work great.
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Old August 17, 2012, 09:29 PM   #21
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I don't know how to do a "Quote" in a post, so I'll try to reply the best I can to y'all, forgive me if I leave you out.

1) Even though the Sport comes with sights, I can still put a scope of some kind on it, RIGHT?

2) That's the reason I want the 5.56, so I can shoot both 5.56 and .223. A good friend just bought a Savage .223 & I tried to tell him that I would not fire a 5.56 in a .223. He says, Ohhhh, they're the same thing. Okay, says I, he'll have to learn the hard way I guess.

3) My eyes are not holding up that's why I'll nee a scope or red dot or something. I need to find a website that will show me a sight picture of what I'll see when looking thru these new fangled optics. Getting old ain't fer "sissies"!

I'm enjoying ya'lls help! Send me some more if you can!
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Old August 17, 2012, 09:40 PM   #22
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Bulletproof, with the sport, yes, you would still be able to mount an optic even though it has iron sights. However, if you use a red dot, the front sight post will be visible and will look something like this:



It doesn't make it harder to shoot or anything, and in the event that your red dot runs out of batter you can still use your flip-up iron sights so I like it.


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Old August 18, 2012, 12:55 AM   #23
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Thanks for the sight pic. What do you do, place that red dot on your target?


Anybody ever buy anything from this site? www.gunsamerica.com
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Old August 18, 2012, 01:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletproof View Post
Thanks for the sight pic. What do you do, place that red dot on your target?
After you sight it in, then yes it is as easy as that. Red dot on your target, and press the trigger.


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Old August 18, 2012, 02:52 PM   #25
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Do the AR's require a lot of cleaning, how often do ya'll clean?

Are they hard to clean?
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