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Old December 19, 2012, 01:31 AM   #51
CoronaGold
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My Berry's is due to arrive tomorrow. (Hmm, make that later today.) I will let you know in a few years how it is holding up.
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Old December 19, 2012, 03:23 AM   #52
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After each cleaning. >I still have to clean the stuck media out of each and every primer pocket. Having to clean primer pockets of tumbler media is something I consider annoying to do period.
I tumble (Lyman 1200) before decapping so that is never an issue for me. On the rare occasion I use my universal decapping die before tumbling the decapping pin in the sizer handily removes any media stuck in the flash holes.
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Old December 19, 2012, 07:43 AM   #53
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Quote:
jcwit

Shiney cases I like, impress? "NO!"

What does impress me is groups under 1/4" from a .223.

Want to really impress? Shoot for score. You will find out how easy groups are.
already do. So far my best 800 yard score is 194/5x. Only been shooting F class 2 years now, so I am still learning. My only .223 is iron sights, but I have parts on the truck for a flattop upper. Will see what I can do with it. I may or may not build a bolt .223 gun someday, I have a .204 which serves the same purpose though here is a pic of a load workup I did last year. I get pretty consistent .25 and below groups with that top left load.



I have no issues with those who like shiny cases, it's just that I have a limited budget and would rather spend it on powder and primers and just wash my cases in a nickles worth of soap and water to protect my dies rather than polish them. I have found no differences between clean dull cases and clean shiny cases. Perhaps when my gun safe is bulging at the seams and I have so many reloading supplies that they are pushing me out of the reloading room I will break down and buy one of those pin tumbler. I do clean my primer pockets though, I find the SD of my velocities lowered when I started doing so. But Iam not sure how much difference a 50 FPS difference in velocity makes even at 800
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Old December 19, 2012, 07:50 AM   #54
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I bought the Cabelas kit and love it. Don't know if its made here in the states or not. If you want a for sure made in the USA, buy a Hornadys one. Everything is made here in the states.
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Old December 19, 2012, 08:22 AM   #55
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I've already posted that mine is a cabelas, but forgot to mention I bought it as a kit, the tumbler, a large bag of media (enough to fill the tumbler twice iirc?) And a bottle of there polishing compound you add to the media. Its been a great machine for me, if it were to die today I would buy the same one again
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Old December 19, 2012, 01:17 PM   #56
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Thanks for everyone's excellent input.

I'm going to choose between three currently on ebay. All are new and prices reflect what I believe the final bid might be:

Ultra Vibe 10 - $115
Hornady - $75
RCBS vibrator - $93 (buy it now)

I will probably go in this order unless I get suggestions otherwise.

PS. Thanks for not bidding against me on these...
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Old December 19, 2012, 02:51 PM   #57
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You've got a dozen suggestions otherwise.
Go to Berry's website and buy the Berry's tumbler and/or kit.
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Old December 19, 2012, 05:00 PM   #58
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Appears the die is cast...

..however, my response to the original question of best cost over the long haul, was to get sst pins to use in the kid's old 3 pound Thumler Tumbler (had to get a new belt). Over three years and 25K+ pieces of brass later, the tumbler runs like a champ, zero problems. I suspect this is partly due to the motor used in the A-R1 three pound tumbler is the same motor used in the dual drum six pound model.

If my tumbler calls it quits, I'll be on eBay looking for another Thumler A-R1 (and I suspect it will be one used by some kid to polish three or four batches of rocks before they lost interest) and it will be reasonably priced too.
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Old December 19, 2012, 05:16 PM   #59
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Berry's, Cabela's, Graf's, all made by Berry Mfg. made right here in the U.S. of A, except for the motor which has no one making one here in the U.S. Berry's are in the same price range, and if you order $49.00 plus you get FREE SHIPPING currently, from Cabela's.

There's THE answer to the original question. Ditto Witt's suggestion for media from Drillspot; cob 20/40 grit is the least costly and easiest to use. I've never felt there's a nickle's worth of effective difference between cob and nut media and those who mix it just to be sure they use the 'right stuff' are a bit amusing to an old hand. Shiney cases are eye candy, nothing more.

Any one wanting to do surgery with cases should be using the wet roller system with steel pins but the cases will have to dry before you can use them. Vib tumblers get cases as clean as they'll ever need to be for shooting and they're ready to use when you take them out.
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Old December 19, 2012, 05:42 PM   #60
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Quote:
You've got a dozen suggestions otherwise.
Go to Berry's website and buy the Berry's tumbler and/or kit.
Soooo... you're suggesting I'm like the guy who goes to his financial advisor and asks for advice... then goes and does something else??

You're point is well taken. The Ultra Vibe closed for over my limit so it's gone.

To be fair, some did recommend the Hornady and UV. The Hornady is currently at about the price of the Berry so it might represent better value/$. Would you still pick the Berry if the Hornady was the same price?

Surprisingly, no one seemed to support the RCBS. Perhaps it's list price is so high; but at $93, is the Berry still better?

Believe it or not, I DO listen... (OK, no fair asking my wife about that )
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Old December 19, 2012, 07:12 PM   #61
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Personnally I would pick the Berry's but buy the Cabela's brand made bt Berry. This way you receive the forever satisfaction warrenty from Cabela's. Top value in my book. Plus right now Free Shipping.
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Old December 19, 2012, 07:14 PM   #62
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jcwit, Like I said they are expensive and I do agree shiney cases don't impress me either but there few of use that can afford to own those rifles that shoot small groups with shiney cases.
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Old December 20, 2012, 05:24 AM   #63
Sevens
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I would buy the Berry's tumbler over all of the others for THESE reasons:

--the difference in money here doesn't seem like a heap, so that small difference isn't much a factor to me. It's not like the difference between a vibratory cleaner and a Thumler's or RCBS Sidewinder which is...obvious.

--I have experience with the Berry's tumbler and in comparison with another -- I simply can't conjure any way I could be happier with it.

--The folks at Berry's have simply been good to me. Their products have been very, very good to me. I haven't tried every plated bullet on the market, but I've tried most and I love the Berry's bullet. And their flip-top boxes are, IMO, the best on the market at any cost, but they cost less than all of them.

I also use the Berry's brass/media separator.

And for those who keep turning up their noses at anyone who wants their ammo to look better because THEY don't think it's necessary, go clean a primer pocket. Your opinion on what is necessary at my bench is completely and entirely irrelevant. My brass looks GREAT and it doesn't take any extra effort or "real" cost or time for me to get it that way. I like it better than your crappy looking brass. (HINT: what I think of your crappy looking brass isn't relevant, either)
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Old December 21, 2012, 01:17 AM   #64
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Personnally I would pick the [...] Cabela's brand made bt Berry. [...] Plus right now Free Shipping.
Just for the record, Berry's offers free shipping on orders over $50...
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Old December 21, 2012, 08:05 AM   #65
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There are two reasons to clean your brass:
1) cosmetic
2) performance

For 1) I loosely relate cosmetic appearance with overall satisfaction in my reloading operation. 'Cleanliness is next to Godliness' was once a revered axiom in America.
For 2) Many aspects of performance need clarification. First, what is unclean about your brass? FRESHLY fired brass is contaminated with powder/primer/lube residue. This deposit is usually quickly removed with any tumbler using corn cobs if tumbled within 3 days of firing. After that, these deposits begin to chemically oxidize and harden and/or attack brass (but not nickel). The longer you wait the worse this chemistry becomes. Secondly, if your brass continues to show stains after the corn cob treatment, a more serious effort will have to be made to return your brass to proper performance. Corn cob resistant 'stains' (usually in the form of pale red/brown/orange smears or patches) are oxides of copper and zinc. Some black residues may be other oxides of copper. Though they may feel 'smooth' to the touch, they are much harder than brass and can/will abraid/score your sizing die and your rifle/pistol chambers during firing.
The bottom line is: get your brass ALL clean, any way you can - no stains, residues, or other imperfections. Then keep it that way with prompt cleaning after firing. Your dies and firearms will respond with proper performance.
I suggest storing freshly polished cases in either ziplok bags or cleaned plastic food jars (typically peanut butter, mayonnaise, or similar typessizes). This helps prevent long term tarnishing of the brass.
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Old December 21, 2012, 09:05 AM   #66
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actually oxidation protects the brass. Oxidation of brass occurs when the copper molecules come into contact with the oxygen. . The oxidized layer, or patina, provides a protective coating around the brass. Don't believe me ? Look it up for yourself. Not that it matters becasue the thin layer that oxidizes is not anywhere close enough to damage the case even if you were to remove it and have it reform ten thousand times.

the reason you clean cases is to remove the dirt and grit which can scratch and erode the dies. Perfectly clean but non shiny brass is just as good at protecting the dies and accuracy as polished brass. For those who want to spend time and money polishing the brass then go for it if it makes you happy but don't confuse removing the patina with cleaning the brass. The patina actually lubricates when the brass is sliding against another piece of metal and will act to a small degree to prevent galling. Please don't take that to mean you can size oxidized brass with no lubricant because you cant.
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Old December 21, 2012, 05:05 PM   #67
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$-value can be somewhat subjective. I bought one of those light plastic Frankford Arsenals and when it arrived I compared it to my Ultra Vibe UV18 industrial I had already, and I couldn't believe how cheap it looked. It didn't take a lot of media, and the cases don't circulate the way they should but instead go very slowly, mostly lying on the bottom and making a heck of a noise against that brittle plastic. Since I bought it as a precleaner for the dirtiest brass I picked up at the outside range, I put up with it anyway where I ran it in the garage. It lasted only a year and a half and I ran it only about 30 times in total. I did probably overload it with 9mm from time-to-time when it failed to circulate at all. It seems to only like a two or three hundred at a time.

My UV18 on the other hand can easily take a couple thousand cases and circulate them like crazy. I had it for more than 15 years. I probably load it 30 to 40 times a year. In runs when my garage is -10 degrees to 90 degrees. To me, this $150 spent was much better $-value. I might be passing this down to my son someday.
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Old December 21, 2012, 07:13 PM   #68
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Question, a couple thousand cases of what? 25 ACP or 50 cal. BMG

Just wondering.
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Old February 5, 2013, 03:17 AM   #69
FLChinook
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Quote:
I'll be on eBay looking for another Thumler A-R1
This "case" has gone cold but let me revive for one more question about the Thumler (assuming the A-R1 is the same as a "B")... The drum has more thumb screws than the vault at Fort Knox. Don't you get tired of all the work to unfasten the top?

Also, Berry's is not currently taking orders for their tumbler. Can it be the latest madness for ammo has extended all the way to the sale of tumblers???
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Old February 6, 2013, 02:39 AM   #70
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I'm new to reloading, just ordered everything but the tumbler. I have a current thread going here about how much it will cost me. I like the idea of a rotary tumbler using wet media. Do you think this one would work?
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-lb-ro...ler-67631.html
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Old February 6, 2013, 11:36 AM   #71
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Appears the die is cast...

..however, my response to the original question of best cost over the long haul, was to get sst pins to use in the kid's old 3 pound Thumler Tumbler (had to get a new belt). Over three years and 25K+ pieces of brass later, the tumbler runs like a champ, zero problems. I suspect this is partly due to the motor used in the A-R1 three pound tumbler is the same motor used in the dual drum six pound model.

If my tumbler calls it quits, I'll be on eBay looking for another Thumler A-R1 (and I suspect it will be one used by some kid to polish three or four batches of rocks before they lost interest) and it will be reasonably priced too.
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How much brass will your Thumler clean at one time? I am thinking the A-R1 or A-R2 is the way to go for me.
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Old February 6, 2013, 01:27 PM   #72
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I find that cleaning my brass until it is nice and shiny helps my old eyes see splits and defects that would go unnoticed otherwise. I tumble my brass in corn cobs, deprive it, then tumble again in walnut shells to clean the primer pockets.
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Old February 6, 2013, 04:54 PM   #73
rajbcpa
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I have a Lyman. I like the drain plug that lets you separate the media from the cases quickly.

I also use nickle plated brass when ever I can because it is pretty.
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Old February 22, 2013, 04:56 PM   #74
GregInAtl
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Thumler Tumbler

What is the difference between Thumler A-R1 and Thumler A-R2 and Thumler Model B.

Thinking about getting one. I currently have a Lyman tumbler that uses corncob/walnut media.
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Old February 22, 2013, 05:10 PM   #75
jaguarxk120
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The model A-R1 has one 3 lb. drum
The model A-R2 has 2 three pound drums

The tumbler that is used with the stainless steel pins is model B, it has a 15 lb drum.
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