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Old December 20, 2012, 02:45 PM   #1
Noreaster
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What drives the cost of ammo

Is it supply and demand, components? I understand when 45LC is more expensive then 38spl but what about 380acp being more expensive then 9mm. Why are all the revolver rounds so expensive. What do you think will happen to the price of ammunition if there is new legislation.
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Old December 20, 2012, 02:49 PM   #2
AndyWest
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Caliber has almost nothing to do with price. Obviously 50 is gunna cost more purely for the materials.
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Old December 20, 2012, 03:02 PM   #3
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Certainly caliber has a effect on price just as Andy has stated. The materials cost more on larger calibers as there is more materials used.

Usually you won't see a difference is cost for 9mm 115g-124g but, there is a little price increase for 147g. This is when buying projectiles not live ammo. I found the same to be true for .40 cal 135g JHP's cost $34 for 250 and $39 for 180g JHP's from the same manufacturer.

Also hard to find calibers tend to cost more. Supply and demand.

Live ammo prices for the same caliber normally only go up with "premium" bullets and or brand names. Remington around my part of the woods always cost more then Federal or Winchester.
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Old December 20, 2012, 03:04 PM   #4
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Greed, pure and simple. If it were not greed, there would be shortages of ammo, albeit at the same price as before any shortage.
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Old December 20, 2012, 03:59 PM   #5
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Greed plays a role, but demand plays a big one too. .380 is in less demand than 9mm, so production lines do shorter runs, hence higher costs
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Old December 20, 2012, 04:16 PM   #6
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I would not say greed, I would say proffits.

If I can sell one of my guns for 10x what its worth is that greed or am I maximizing my return?

Now I am no apologist for corporations but I do understand their reasoning.
It my responsibility to do the best I can.

I may not like it, but if they can get away with charging far more for ammo than what it cost to produce, then its within reason thats what they do.

During our last storm incident (AK) I did appreciate Hondas take that their dealers not gouge. I would have understood if they had and would have adjusted my purchase accordingly.

And it would be good to read about current mfg process. You can make small batches as low cost as larger batches if you setup for it right.
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Old December 20, 2012, 04:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
I would not say greed, I would say profits
Fair enough... maybe excessive profits?
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Old December 20, 2012, 04:19 PM   #8
testuser
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I'd say...

- Labor Cost
- Raw Material Cost
- Exchange rate (when buying foreign ammo, especially)
- Supply and Demand

On a related note, my component cost doesn't seem to be increasing as quickly as the price of factory ammo.
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Old December 20, 2012, 04:27 PM   #9
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Like mentioned, supply and demand. Copper, which is a component of brass is a commodity all it's own, so the price fluctuates based on demand for that part of it too. From 04 to 06 copper prices doubled. As did lead.
The material prices are almost insignificant per round. The costs are really in the equipment, manpower, and shipping.
Making that one box of ammo that you buy for $12, had a lot of work go into it.
If you read I, Pencil: My Family Tree as Told to Leonard E. Read; you will really understand how complex it really is to produce such a cheap item.
I highly suggest reading it and passing it along to anyone that doesn't understand economics.
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Old December 20, 2012, 04:28 PM   #10
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First, get rid of the idea that the factories have hundreds of lines running all the time, turning out every known caliber.

That is not true. Even the bigger ammo factories (military excepted) run a batch of one caliber. Then they change over a line and run a batch of another caliber. How long a line will run a given caliber depends on demand; and how long it takes to fill the pipeline. The more demand for one caliber the longer that line will be kept running and production of other, less popular, calibers will be put on the back burner.

It costs time and money to change a line over, and that cost is passed on to the customer in the price of the ammo. The longer a line runs a given caliber, the more the cost will be distributed over a larger number of production units (rounds) and the less the cost will be at the gun shop.

So in many ways, the caliber does influence the cost, but not in the way many folks think.

Does "greed" play a role? Only in that ammunition companies like to make money. There is an alternative - government ownership of all production so "they" can decide what products the public will be allowed to have.

Dahermit can have his opinion, but of the alternatives, I prefer greed.

Jim
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Old December 20, 2012, 04:28 PM   #11
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If TPTB...ban imports of foreign made ammo...the price of ammo will surge.
China's demand for minerals, such as copper and lead, has driven up the price of U.S. production ammo. Any laser etched ammo, due to anti-gun legislation...will also drive-up the price of ammo.
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Old December 20, 2012, 04:29 PM   #12
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demand or popularity ...and component cost are big factors...as well as all of the overhead for mfg's - insurance, shipping, utilities, etc..../ there is still a lot of competition out there as well...

but I don't think we'll see the prices coming down at all ....especially in the short term.

Cost of reloading components are up a little as well for those of us that reload.
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Old December 20, 2012, 06:40 PM   #13
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LEO ammo (9mm and 40) tends to be cheapest and easy to find.

The weirder, the more expensive.

Why 380 costs more than 10mm, tho, is a mystery.
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Old December 20, 2012, 11:22 PM   #14
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380 is a seasional load. Its made in runs and not all year long.
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Old December 20, 2012, 11:39 PM   #15
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When the Zombie Apocalype hits a single .22 rf cartridge will cost one Kugerand, or one roll of toliet paper.
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Old December 21, 2012, 12:19 AM   #16
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Someone mentioned labor and material cost. Then you take a couple of hundred % or more of all that which is G&A and Overhead cost. I do suspect insurance is one of those important high cost in their overhead plus all the safety factors. Now we can start calculating profit which is % of the total of all the other cost.

We also must not forget shipping cost of components to the factory plus the shipping cost in the distribution of the final product which is a hazardous shipping product.

Every middle person and final sells enity to the public adds in their labor, G&A, overhead and profit.

We still have not added in how much it cost us to drive to the store and home plus the time we spend (our labor) purchasing our bullets.

Its surprising just how cheap ammo is ~ LOL
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Old December 21, 2012, 02:14 AM   #17
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Rainbow, heh. Someone told me the Mayan apocalypse is scheduled to hit today. I'll be keeping my gold and toilet paper close to the tactical vest.
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Old December 21, 2012, 02:17 AM   #18
AndyWest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radom
380 is a seasional load. Its made in runs and not all year long.
Er, what? Did you mean 308? Either is likely manufactured year-round.
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Old December 21, 2012, 05:58 AM   #19
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Paid 47.00 for a box of 50 silver tips for my seecamp 32. but that 's the price you pay for premium sd ammo.
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Old December 21, 2012, 06:12 AM   #20
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"Ok boys, we have to stop making 9mm's all day and every day, the next few days we need to retool (non production time) and then make a run of 45lc, after that run then take a few more days to go back to producing back to the 9mm. Plus or minus the day that find broken parts ($$$$) Then getting back to the mass production of the free flowing familiar stable."
Who said that? What a fool!
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Old December 21, 2012, 07:09 AM   #21
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Quote:
.........What do you think will happen to the price of ammunition if there is new legislation........
I know this thread makes reference to ammo costs, but there's a lot more going on than just that. Right now BHO is what's determining the cost and availability of things.

You don't have to wait for new legislation. Here's what's happening according to John Farum (those of us who took his training signed up for his Quips) inre: to a couple of major retailers he's personally familiar with.

Waiting period for BG checks over a week (46 business hours).

No AR's left in stock, and any future shipments already sold. Some wholsalers closed--inventory gone. PMags gone at $60 ea. and going for $100on Gunbrokers.com.

None of this matters anyway, since today is the Apocalypse and we're all doomed. Nice knowing you, and fairwell.

.223 ammo sold out with all BO's already spoken for.

At another dealer (I assume in another location), waiting period was 24 hours

Here in Reno, Nv. a major gun dealer I'm acquainted with sold 18 AR's in one afternoon on Monday. Another was on the eve. news yesterday. They had customers lined up out the door.

I checked with Sheels today, and they still have Glock mag's in stock, but G22 is already sold out and some others nearly so.

I understand that things may be different, depending on which area you live in, but certain types of ammo will be in short supply or not available--especially .223.

John points out that this buying frenzy (guns, mag.'s, ammo) eclypses the rush during the Bill Clinton era and when O'Bama was first elected--by a lot.

During less frantic times, fighting two wars, and stockpiling of ammo by lots of shooters effected cost. And, of course, so does demand. I prefer to stock up before the hoarders get it.

The point: You don't have to wait for legislation to see what's going to happen re: cost and availability.

I think that the more "recreational" calibers will always be available and so will premium SD ammo. Bulk ammo is another story, especially for AR.

Last edited by Nnobby45; December 21, 2012 at 07:22 AM.
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Old December 22, 2012, 01:35 AM   #22
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Supply & demand, material prices, plant operation costs, and I'm sure a very sizable liability insurance cost. The manufacturers can never tell when some greedy moron, and his equally greedy lawyer will file suit over something stupid the moron did. Coupled with the "give them a lottery winning settlement" attitude of juries.
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Old December 22, 2012, 07:04 AM   #23
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That is not true. Even the bigger ammo factories (military excepted) run a batch of one caliber. Then they change over a line and run a batch of another caliber. How long a line will run a given caliber depends on demand; and how long it takes to fill the pipeline. The more demand for one caliber the longer that line will be kept running and production of other, less popular, calibers will be put on the back burner.
I suspect that some of the really popular calibers, such as .223 have their own dedicated production lines and another production line, possibly the older machinery, gets switched out to do runs of the odds and ends calibers, but I don't know for sure.
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Old December 22, 2012, 07:22 AM   #24
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fear, greed, supply, demand, war, and law

like everything else
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Old December 22, 2012, 08:08 AM   #25
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Quote:
Fair enough... maybe excessive profits?
Who gets to define what's "excessive?"
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