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Old December 15, 2012, 07:47 AM   #76
thedudeabides
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I've had several Glocks...

So, the qualifiers are:
- easy to learn-there's just a trigger with a trigger safety. No hammer, to thumb safety, no decocker
- requires minimal complex thought...hard to forget-no need for muscle memory, remembering what condition it's in. There's no DA vs SA. Pull trigger
- easy to clean-pull trugger, gunsmith grip, release slide, takes down in less than 2 seconds
- runs dirty-never needs cleaning
- reliable OOTB and after 1000 rounds with no parts changes-run thousands thru mine
- paper plate at 25 yards accurate-they're combat accurate. with practice most with barrels over 4'' will get you reasonable results.
- easy to shoot fast doubles on that same plate at 7 yards-no sweat
- drop safe...not CA test, but in practice-striker gun with a trigger safety, you could use it to hammer nails
- meaningful SD or HD caliber-45, 357 SIG, 40, 10mm
- could be CCW'd-too many to choose from
- popular enough to never worry about parts, finding a gunsmith, etc.-great customer service from Glock, easy enough to work on them yourself, but parts aren't THAT cheap compared to the price of the gun as a whole

Last edited by thedudeabides; December 15, 2012 at 07:53 AM.
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Old December 15, 2012, 08:50 AM   #77
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a topbreak single action revolver such as the currently manufactured Italians
http://www.uberti.com/firearms/top-break.php

Revolvers run better dirty and you can stick one in a drawer and neglect it for 20 years and it will still work as designed whereas autos magazine springs under pressure may not work if neglected long enough.

Topbreaks take the ejection problem out of the equation. The Schofield model was designed to be opened and unloaded with one hand while on horseback. You can reload with speedloaders without the grips interfering with the operation as sometimes happens with swing out DA revolvers. Very easy to clean.
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Old December 15, 2012, 03:31 PM   #78
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Quote:
Revolvers run better dirty and you can stick one in a drawer and neglect it for 20 years and it will still work as designed whereas autos magazine springs under pressure may not work if neglected long enough.
A popular misconception these days. We have learned a great deal about making springs (and springs that last) in the past century. These days, if you come across a gun stored in a drawer for the last 20 years, odds are it won't be the springs that cause it to malfunction. It will be the oil!!!

I have personal experience with this. Everybody knows that you should oil your guns for long term storage, right? Just like you do for short term storage, right? Wrong! At least it is wrong if you expect to pick up a gun from long term storage and expect it to work, particularly an autopistol.

What happens is, over time, the volitile components of the oil evaporate. This leaves behind a sticky, gummy sludge. Almost like a varnish. With a revolver, the minimal amount of oil in the mechanism is usually easily overridden by the force exerted on the moving parts. A slightly heavier DA trigger pull, or a little more force to cock the hammer is the only effect, and often is not even noticable.

With an autopistol the large contact areas (slide rails, etc) can be gummed up, to the point of not being able to me overcome by the recoil spring. And this can happen to any auto, even the vaunted GLock.

Ok, it's not common. After all, how often do people leave a pistol in their sock drawer, untouched for 20 years, and then pick it up and try to use it, without doing anything else? Not often. But it has happened. I've found one myself.

On going through my father's things after his passing, He hadn't touched any of his guns in years, a decade, at least, and likely twice that. I found his Colt Govt Model in a drawer. Mag fully loaded with ball ammo. When I cycled the slide to clear the chamber, the slide only closed halfway, (slowly) and them stopped. It was the oil he had left in the gun, turned to sludge that stopped it. And any auto in that condition would have been the same thing. His S&W Highway Patrolman, on the other hand, in identical conditions functioned flawlessly, without any cleaning needed.

The Colt, once the old oil sludge had been removed, did cycle fine. And the ammo loaded in the mag fed and fired perfectly, without being touched (did not unload/reload the loaded mag). ITs not the springs, these days that won't run after a decade of neglect, its the oil.

Now, I'm sure my father never intended to let them sit neglected, his guns were stored well enough for casual storage (weeks/months) but when those turned into years, and years passed, time took its toll.

If you are storing a handgun, and you think there is even the slightest possiblity that it might sit for years, and then be instantly needed, store it DRY!!!! If you need some preservative on the outside, use a good paste WAX. An unlubed gun will work, and will work a lot longer than you would think. True, its rougher on the mechanism, but service life vs emergency use should be a no brainer.

Modern science has shown us, time after time that when springs are made properly, it is not the amount of time they spend compressed that kills them. It is the amount (number) of compression/relaxation cycles they go through that wears them out. OR it is overcompressing them that causes them to weaken.

Vintage arms must be treated properly, as they have vintage springs. Modern arms are much, much more durable, especially the springs.
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Old December 15, 2012, 03:48 PM   #79
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Honestly any weapon can be impacted by dirt and debris. Certainly the trigger mechanism of the Glock could be vulnerable when you examine how the safety works within the trigger. I'm not saying this is a common occurrence or even has ever occurred but it seems at least plausible.

Many quality brands are used in military service and any of these should be more than capable of handling what the average person can do with them. My personal list would be something like:

1. SIG/H&K
2. Beretta/S&W
3. Glock

Your mileage may vary...
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Old December 15, 2012, 03:51 PM   #80
Bob Wright
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As to 44AMP's discussion concerning oil, gumming up was the reason whale oil was used for so long in watches and clocks ~ it non-gumming properties.

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Old December 15, 2012, 05:17 PM   #81
peacefulgary
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This...




Or this...

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Old December 15, 2012, 08:06 PM   #82
skoro
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Easiest Handgun to Own

Quote:
Use your experience here! This is kind of the parallel of "don't want to shoot weekly, clean weekly, do simple gunsmithing...what gun should I buy?" thread.

So, the qualifiers are:
- easy to learn
- requires minimal complex thought...hard to forget
- easy to clean
- runs dirty
- reliable OOTB and after 1000 rounds with no parts changes
- paper plate at 25 yards accurate
- easy to shoot fast doubles on that same plate at 7 yards
- drop safe...not CA test, but in practice
- meaningful SD or HD caliber
- could be CCW'd
- popular enough to never worry about parts, finding a gunsmith, etc.

Basically, a one gun gun for reccomending. So, tell me what you have for this? Pick one and tell us about it.
What you've just described is the S&W Model 10.
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Old December 15, 2012, 08:50 PM   #83
Super Sneaky Steve
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I'm with Bob on single actions for CC.

Here's my rig.

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Old December 16, 2012, 11:17 AM   #84
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I'm with bob and steve on this one also. I carry a 4 3/4 cattleman in .45 colt...also in the PS6sa. Before that, I exclusively carried a 5" kimber in either a speed scabbard or a galco royal guard. I had no trouble concealing either of them. Really, given the amazing ergonomics of the grip and the slimness of the entire gun save for the cylinder...not to mention as high as the mernickle holsters put a SAA, they hide very well (not that's a really big deal to me) I've wore mine several times out in flip flops with cargo shorts under a loose fitting T shirt and my Dad didn't even know I had it.

But....I wouldn't really recommend the SA revolvers to a experienced shooter.

PS. The pastor of our church growing up was behind the pulpit every Sunday with a Charter Arms Pug .38 in his waistband

Last edited by BerdanSS; December 16, 2012 at 05:01 PM.
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Old December 16, 2012, 03:27 PM   #85
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Great article about lubrication....and a surprising conclusion....

http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html
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Old December 16, 2012, 03:51 PM   #86
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I must admit that lately I've been CC a revolver, but, one of my favorite CC pistols is the Kahr P-45, 20 oz, 7-shot .45ACP compact with a slender grip that's easy to get a hold of in a hurry.

It's extremely simple and intuitive in use. And goes bang really loudly, every time.
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Old December 16, 2012, 04:00 PM   #87
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Another vote for a DA S&W or Ruger revolver in .38/357. Just can't go wrong. Though a Glock is a very solid runner up fitting the stated requirements, as they just don't stop either. And frankly, I've had more issues with my S&Ws than my Glocks (but the S&Ws are still my first pick).

On further review it would be much easier to teach a newbie how to make 25-yard hits with the Glock trigger than a double-action revolver trigger. Flipped to the other side of the coin, with the single-action capability of a S&W or Ruger you could teach a new shooter to make 50-yard hits more easily than with the Glock.
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Old December 16, 2012, 06:36 PM   #88
peacefulgary
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I just don't get the notion of carrying a SA revolver as a concealed carry weapon.
Too slow to shoot and too slow to reload.
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Old December 17, 2012, 11:58 PM   #89
BerdanSS
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Spray and pray won't win the day. I'll take five controlled, dead on hits with stout rounds of .45 colt PD over 15 rapid fire 9mms with 80% hits any day of the week

I could show you different, as could a lot of other people on SA speed.

They are most defiantly not a good CCW for an unexperienced shooter/user. I shoot and drill with them so much the loading, unloading and firing has become second nature. I get dazed looks at the range all the time while unloading (and I would consider myself slow, compared to a really good SAA shooter.)

It's all how you know the gun, and what you can do under stress. There are people that can load, empty (accurately) and reload a semi auto in mere seconds....then there are some I've shot right next to that struggle to HIT a target at 7 yards with a condition one auto while I can fire 10 rounds touching at 10-15 yards before they can empty a 15 round mag doing 1-fire-1-fire-1-fire-1......

Last edited by BerdanSS; December 18, 2012 at 12:04 AM.
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Old December 18, 2012, 12:19 AM   #90
BerdanSS
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That all being said...the truly "easiest" gun in my opinion would be a mid or full size glock (21, 17 or 19) or a good quality plain jane 5" 1911. I have no use for an XD or Sig of any kind.
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Old December 18, 2012, 02:20 AM   #91
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I just ran across a very old book on handguns, with U S Army tests run on early Colt and S&W double action revolvers.
They put these revolvers through hell and malfunctions were few and far between even after using a solution to induce rapid rusting and no lubrication at all, then firing thousands of rounds without cleaning or simply scraping rust out of the chambers so they could chamber a round.
One thing I noticed was that even if the revolver was so badly rusted and fouled that it no longer worked normally, they were able to continue firing by turning the cylinder by hand while cocking the hammer.

I'll post a link to a free download of this and other works I found on the Internet Archive later on. Good reading to be found there.
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Old December 20, 2012, 08:30 PM   #92
allenomics
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I'd agree that the Glock 19 might be ideal. It has a really good trigger, is easy to maintain, durable and pretty accurate.
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