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Old December 10, 2012, 10:04 AM   #1
1DrnkMxR
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Seal Team Six ( The raid on osama bin ladin)

I was watching it on netflix the other night since I didn't watch it when it was first shown on the national geographic channel.

Anyway I noticed that the seals were using their M4 rifles with Eotech and no front or back sights mounted on the rails. Is this the way they run it or is this just hollywood, just wondering?
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Old December 10, 2012, 10:32 AM   #2
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Undoubtedly Hollywood. Members equip their guns individually as they see fit for the given mission and so you would expect a wide variety of gear being used. Some do/will use Eotechs for CQB type situations, but you would not expect to see a consistent use of that sight and a consistent non-use of BUIS.
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Old December 10, 2012, 12:08 PM   #3
Fishbed77
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Below are linked photos of "Mark Owen's" HK416 in his book No Easy Day that he presumably used in the OBL raid.

It does not appear to have any BUIS installed, though it does have an aiming laser attached in addition to the EOTech/flip-up magnifier.

http://spartanat.files.wordpress.com...owens-guns.jpg

http://spartanat.files.wordpress.com...owen.jpg?w=584


Note to mods: I have linked rather than posted these photos because I'm not sure about copyright issues, though it would appear that the linked site had permission to post these, since they do not appear to scanned from the printed media.

Last edited by Fishbed77; December 10, 2012 at 12:20 PM.
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Old December 10, 2012, 01:44 PM   #4
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I agree with what had already been said, SEALS will equip weapons on a mission per mission basis.

Somethig else to consider, weight was at a premium even moreso than normal on this mission. From what I have read(Havn't read the book in question yet) extreme care was taken to manage the weight of each soldiers kit because of the already overburdened "Stealth" blackhawks. Also, the SEALS probably had NVG's on when they went in so if god forbid at the last moment an EOtech went down the IR laser would be a backup in CQB.

So why not take the extra, probably not needed 2-4 lbs(when averaged across all team members)and apply it to extra ammo?

Last edited by Patriot86; December 10, 2012 at 01:57 PM.
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Old December 10, 2012, 07:24 PM   #5
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I can't speak for the SEALs, but nearly every trainer I've spoken with recommends having a back-up sighting system for a fighting carbine.
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Old December 10, 2012, 07:39 PM   #6
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Laser + EOTech = backup. Redundancy is what it is about..also, not sure, but can a person get on irons with night vision?
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Old December 10, 2012, 07:45 PM   #7
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Old December 10, 2012, 07:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
but can a person get on irons with night vision?
I've tried it and couldn't do it but it may be possible. it is no way efficient
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Old December 10, 2012, 08:30 PM   #9
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The SEALs in the bin Laden raid had night vision with 4 optics on it, to provide depth perception and/or peripheral vision, I'd imagine. It would be a serious pain in the ass to use irons like that.

I'd imagine that, given the close quarters they were in, they simply used IR lasers for targeting.
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Old December 10, 2012, 09:49 PM   #10
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Just curious ; never tried this with any kind of night vision but how do iron sights with Tritium inserts come in when viewed through NVG's?

PS: Sexy finish on both the 416 and the MP7.
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Old December 10, 2012, 11:14 PM   #11
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Sadly, one of these guys died yesterday. Very sad:
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Old December 11, 2012, 01:52 AM   #12
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I was in the Navy for 5 years and worked closely with SEALs in my line of work. A buddy of mine is a SEAL and he has his doubts about the raid. He said it doesn't sound anywhere near the way a SEAL time carries out a mission with a valued target. Not meaning to seem like a conspirator lol but I have trouble trusting everything my government tells me.

On a different note, the SEALs are THE most professional, reserved, and coolest guys I've ever met. They deserve full respect.
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Old December 11, 2012, 09:13 AM   #13
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Well, I imagine things got hairy once one of their helicopters crashed and burned...
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Old December 11, 2012, 10:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Just curious ; never tried this with any kind of night vision but how do iron sights with Tritium inserts come in when viewed through NVG's?
Very bright. Sort of like you get reticle bloom when you turn up the brightness on your red dot sight and the reticle gets larger as it gets brighter, the tritium inserts that look clear to the unaided eye with well defined edges overglow or bloom when seen through NV and appear larger in size and less well defined.

I suppose there may be toned down tritium sights for NV gear, maybe IR tritium, but I have never seen or heard of either.

This isn't to say that it isn't functional, only that the amount of light that is good for unaided eyes is much more than necessary than for NV gear to work at the same level. It still works, however.
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Old December 11, 2012, 09:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
I was in the Navy for 5 years and worked closely with SEALs in my line of work. A buddy of mine is a SEAL and he has his doubts about the raid. He said it doesn't sound anywhere near the way a SEAL time carries out a mission with a valued target. Not meaning to seem like a conspirator lol but I have trouble trusting everything my government tells me.
I recently RO'd a match with a Delta operator who just retired from service a couple of months ago. We got to talking about the role of special forces in our current war and he said (as expected) that there is a lot going on that no one knows about. Nothing was said about who carried out the OBL raid, but he said that it went well considering the problems that the soldiers faced before they got feet down.



And to answer the answer about back up sights on the raid, well I can't say for sure. But I did ask this friend about BUIS when on missions and he said that he had them on his rifle about 10% of the time. That 10% was when he was going to be on a daylight operation. He said the NV that they use makes it way too hard to use it. He said that he preferred using an Eotech on a riser because without the riser it was almost as hard to use with NVG as BUIS were. His backup (which was also his primary means of aiming for close quarters) was the IR laser.



He does now have BUIS on his defensive carbine. But he still uses a riser for his Eotech (old habits die hard)
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Old December 12, 2012, 11:14 AM   #16
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I bet there was a disclaimer that the NG show was "based" on real events. This is Hollywood speak for it takes drama to make $$$ the truth be damned.
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Old December 12, 2012, 08:21 PM   #17
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True, with NVGs, iron sights would not be terribly useful. I don't know what NVGs the team used, but many NVGs have to be focused at specific ranges. Some that I have used are almost worthless at arms length, when you focus them for distance.
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Old December 12, 2012, 08:55 PM   #18
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I don't know what NVGs the team used, but many NVGs have to be focused at specific ranges. Some that I have used are almost worthless at arms length, when you focus them for distance.
Per the book No Easy Day the NVGs used were 4-tube units (Elbit QuadEyes or similar). You can see them in the second photo from the book that was linked in post #3 (on the top shelf with the HK45C and P226.)
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