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Old December 8, 2012, 11:04 PM   #1
baddarryl
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Glock 25 and 28 LEO only.

Can anyone tell me why this is so?
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Old December 8, 2012, 11:32 PM   #2
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Because government has import restrictions.......... The Glock 25/28 doesn't meet those.
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Old December 8, 2012, 11:44 PM   #3
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The ATF has a system of points to determine the eligibility of a weapon for import. A certain number of points are given to each feature that is deemed to make a firearm more "sporting." There's a chart depicting it here.

Glocks barely make the cut in standard service calibers. The .380 chambering doesn't.

For what it's worth, the prohibited models aren't any smaller than their 9mm cousins, so their market viability is questionable.
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Old December 8, 2012, 11:53 PM   #4
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Extensively discussed here:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480175
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For what it's worth, the prohibited models aren't any smaller than their 9mm cousins, so their market viability is questionable.
+1, and they're also blowback-operated rather than locked-breech, so it's highly unlikely that they shoot any softer than a similar-sized 9mm Glock, and may actually have more recoil (hard to say exactly, since virtually nobody on this board has seen one, much less shot one). No size advantage + no recoil advantage + ammo price disadvantage + fails ATF points test = virtually no American market potential.

The G25 and G28 basically exist as specialty products for sale in countries that prohibit civilian ownership of pistols in so-called "military" calibers.
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Last edited by carguychris; December 9, 2012 at 12:22 AM. Reason: minor reword...
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Old December 9, 2012, 10:06 PM   #5
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OK, thank you!
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Old December 9, 2012, 10:50 PM   #6
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I didn't click the linked thread. There's a chance I posted in it...

For whatever they ARE or ARE NOT, for whatever they CAN or CANNOT do, I still say: If it says Glock on it, there's money to be made on it. People will buy it.

If they could find a way to import a .380 Auto Glock, or simply drag enough of the tooling stateside to just build them in Smyrna, they would sell the ever-lovin' hell out of them.
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Old December 9, 2012, 10:52 PM   #7
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Just for clarification. ANYONE who can legally own a handgun in the U.S. can own a Glock 25 or Glock 28. The problem is that they can't be imported except by military/LE. Once they're legally in the country, they are no different, legally speaking, than any other handgun.
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Old December 9, 2012, 11:35 PM   #8
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I really think someone should exercise the "LEO gets to do stuff that the BATFE and other eieieo Feds won't let normal people do" and get a few of these here on North America, and then forward them to some civilians.

I'd like to see what a handful of these end up going for when they start changing hands. Talk about a weird market - realistically, they truly offer nothing over the ones that are easily available.

Does anyone think they wouldn't sell for big bucks? (comparatively, I mean)
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Old December 10, 2012, 10:00 AM   #9
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IMHO......just by virtue of the fact that they're only "commercially" available to a smaller segment of the population in limited numbers, I'd would think that would make the value of those that become available "privately" higher. If nothing else, just as a collectible.
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Old December 10, 2012, 10:35 AM   #10
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Glock is now manufacturing guns here in America as well as assembling them. I had my hands on a "Made in the USA" Model 19 the other day. I wonder if the 380 models would be ones they would consider manufacturing here as well. They wouldn't be subject to import restrictions.
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Old December 10, 2012, 12:36 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by twhidd View Post
Glock is now manufacturing guns here in America as well as assembling them. I had my hands on a "Made in the USA" Model 19 the other day. I wonder if the 380 models would be ones they would consider manufacturing here as well. They wouldn't be subject to import restrictions.
Not that I want one, but I have been wondering the same thing myself.
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Old December 11, 2012, 09:51 AM   #12
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That BATFE points system is absolutely random and arbitrary...and I'm guessing it's legality is in a grey area; free trade laws and all that.

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Glock is now manufacturing guns here in America as well as assembling them. I had my hands on a "Made in the USA" Model 19 the other day. I wonder if the 380 models would be ones they would consider manufacturing here as well. They wouldn't be subject to import restrictions.
First, it's pretty cool that Glock is manufacturing guns in the Good Ole U S of A. (well, it's likely that most of the parts still come from overseas, they're just assembled here). Next, I can't see a .380 Glock having any viability in the US. Why get a 25, when I can get a 19 or 23, or a 28 when I can get a 26 or 27. There's no advantage to the .380 versions (same mag capacity as 9mm versions) and the disadvantage of the .380 which is, of course, an inferior round to the 9mm. I suppose less recoil? I can't see anyone seriously wanting a .380 Glock except maybe Glock collectors. There's just no market for it here.
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Old December 11, 2012, 10:33 AM   #13
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That BATFE points system is absolutely random and arbitrary...and I'm guessing it's legality is in a grey area; free trade laws and all that.
IMHO the entire concept of "sporting purposes" in American firearms law is arbitrary and probably unconstitutional because the 2A protects the right to bear arms but says nothing about sporting goods. Unfortunately, it will probably take a carefully crafted court challenge to negate it, as it's settled law, and various American gunmakers appreciate the trade protection and are therefore unlikely to support a repeal.
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Next, I can't see a .380 Glock having any viability in the US.
My hunch is that if Glock is going to bother building a .380 stateside, it will be something in the LCP/P3AT mold.

Although I'm an admitted member of the unofficial TFL "Not-So-Subcompact Small .380 Service Pistol Fan Club" (e.g. Beretta 84, Browning BDA .380, & CZ 83), I'll be the first to tell you that the American market potential for such pistols is limited. For the most part, Glock does not play the collector market, and is unlikely to jump through hoops to sell the G25 & G28 here.
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Old December 11, 2012, 11:55 AM   #14
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My hunch is that if Glock is going to bother building a .380 stateside, it will be something in the LCP/P3AT mold.
I would love it if Glock produced a single stack anything. In the mold of the XDs, M&P Shield, or even Sig P238 (or 239), or really, anything small and concealable. It's my understanding though that Gaston Glock isn't interested in making guns specifically for civilians, and all of his designs are for Military and LE. This makes a small single stack anything from Glock a very low possibility...at least as long as Gaston is running the company.
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Old December 11, 2012, 12:33 PM   #15
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I wonder if the 380 models would be ones they would consider manufacturing here as well.
It's unlikely. Their mentality is that they're not going to build something unless they can make and sell tons of it. The .380 models have limited appeal at best, and production would require retooling to accommodate the different internals.
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Old December 11, 2012, 01:09 PM   #16
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I would love it if Glock produced a single stack anything.
Like the G36 perhaps?
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It's my understanding though that Gaston Glock isn't interested in making guns specifically for civilians, and all of his designs are for Military and LE.
How do you explain the civilian gun-game oriented G34 and G35 then?

Tom Servo said:
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Their mentality is that they're not going to build something unless they can make and sell tons of it.
+1. Gaston Glock's primary goal is making money by the bagful, regardless of the market his product serves; he's somewhat notorious for this attitude.

The G17L, G34, and G35 are low-volume niche products by Glock standards, but they're also so-called "halo" products that can be sold for higher prices than their standard lineup, yet have a high degree of parts commonality and probably cost only a little more to manufacture.

To bring the G25 & G28 here, Glock would either have to substantially modify the design to meet ATF importation criteria and retool an Austrian plant, or add new tooling to their American plant. Either strategy would require a big investment to sell pistols with relatively little American market potential.

A theoretical American-built LCP/P3AT-type "G40" would probably outsell either the G25 or G28 by a 5:1 ratio, and would probably make the company more money, even if they had to cut their margins substantially to approach the LCP/P3AT price point.
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Old December 11, 2012, 01:12 PM   #17
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A theoretical American-built LCP/P3AT-type "G40" would probably outsell either the G25 or G28 by a 5:1 ratio
For the sake of gun shop employees everywhere, I pray that they never come out with a model 40. Gaston could save everyone a great deal of trouble and just skip to model 41.
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Old December 11, 2012, 02:45 PM   #18
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For the sake of gun shop employees everywhere, I pray that they never come out with a model 40.
Oh gack, I forgot about that...

Overheard in virtually every gun shop, sometimes several times a day:

Customer: "I want a Glock forty".

Clerk: "Which one? I've got a 22 Gen4, a 22 RTF, a 23 Gen4, and this 35."

Customer: <Stares at clerk quizzically> "Uhhh... the one that's forty."



5 minutes later...

Customer: "I want a Smith & Wesson three-fifty-seven."

Clerk: "OK, I've got this 686, and this 640."

Customer: <pauses> "No, I want a three-fifty-seven."

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Old December 11, 2012, 04:25 PM   #19
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carguychris ......How do you explain the civilian gun-game oriented G34 and G35 then?
Yup......those two owe their dimensions to the IDPA "box". Which is funny, because the 17L (longer than either G34 or G35) wasn't originally a "competition" model, but a tactical model.

The 17L was issued to the Romanian "Brigada Antiterrorista"

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Old December 11, 2012, 09:44 PM   #20
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It's unlikely. Their mentality is that they're not going to build something unless they can make and sell tons of it.
Yeah right! You mean like the 45 GAP?
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Old December 11, 2012, 10:15 PM   #21
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You mean like the 45 GAP?
They've sold bunches of 'em to LE... OTOH re: civilian sales, I'd argue that the round was a risk that sounded much better in theory than it's worked in practice.
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Old December 11, 2012, 10:26 PM   #22
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Yeah right! You mean like the 45 GAP?
OK, allow me to rephrase that. Their mentality is that they're not going to build something unless they think they can make and sell tons of it.

.45 GAP was a bad bet, but everyone has their Edsel.
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Old December 12, 2012, 10:27 PM   #23
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Seems like some some police force could bring in some change arming with the 380 as a back-up gun and then selling them on gunbroker after a reasonable service life of one year.

If Diamondback ever convinces me they have their act together...
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