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Old December 6, 2012, 07:50 AM   #1
rebs
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R-guns or Model 1 ?

Does anyone have any information on either of these two companies ?
They advertise in Shotgun News. I have looked at ads for both their AR15 rifle kits and their uppers but have no idea about their quality.
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Old December 6, 2012, 07:56 AM   #2
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I have two Model 1 uppers both run well and were deli mered on time. I have had no dealings with R guns.
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Old December 6, 2012, 09:10 AM   #3
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I have two Model 1 uppers both run well and were deli mered on time. I have had no dealings with R guns.
what does deli mered mean ?
How accurate are they ?
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Old December 6, 2012, 09:19 AM   #4
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I suspect a typo. He meant "delivered"
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Old December 6, 2012, 09:44 AM   #5
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if i told you about all the people screwed by R-Guns, it would take a few pages..., so i'll politely say, keep AWAY from R-Guns !!
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Old December 6, 2012, 09:53 AM   #6
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I noticed that the Sportsman's Guide is selling FA BCGs made by R-Guns. Should I stay away? It doesn't look like BCM's BCGs cost much more but I don't see any in stock.
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Old December 6, 2012, 09:59 AM   #7
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I've had to replace most of the parts in the Model1Sales parts kit I bought in '05. I wouldn't get anything from either.
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Old December 6, 2012, 01:05 PM   #8
rebs
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Thanks for the info I'll forget buying from either of them.
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Old December 6, 2012, 01:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
I've had to replace most of the parts in the Model1Sales parts kit I bought in '05. I wouldn't get anything from either.
+1. I've not had quality problems, but everything I've ever ordered from them has taken at least 3 weeks to ship in addition to which their shipping prices have been outlandishly high. They don't get my hard earned cash anymore...
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Old December 6, 2012, 02:55 PM   #10
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bedlamite -
"I've had to replace most of the parts in the Model1Sales parts kit I bought in '05. I wouldn't get anything from either."
--

Thanks for the completely ambiguous and unsupported statement.

I bought a model 1 upper a couple years ago.
It was delivered timely at normal cost.
It has perfomed well with several hundred rounds through it.

It is well worth what I paid.
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Old December 6, 2012, 04:50 PM   #11
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if i told you about all the people screwed by R-Guns, it would take a few pages..., so i'll politely say, keep AWAY from R-Guns !!
I called their shop/support number ONCE. Never again.

I would avoid both....
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Old December 6, 2012, 10:01 PM   #12
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I was looking at AR's on the website for R-guns. Do not see anything there that raises any red flags. Can someone give a little more info about the problems that have been encountered when dealing with them? All we have seen posted so far are very vague "warnings" that do not really convey any useful information.
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Old December 7, 2012, 12:17 AM   #13
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I have a model 1 sales 9mm kit built around a DPMS lower. the doesn't take the Cprod mags that they sell but it is flawless with Colt mags. their prices aren't the best when you factor in that many of their kits are priced without the bolt carrier groups.

with that said, model1 sales and blackthorn are about as low quality as you can get as far as durability goes. palmetto state armory would be a much better bet.
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Old December 7, 2012, 07:55 AM   #14
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AKsRul.e- several hundred rounds is nothing. Let me know after several thousand. At just under 1K I had to replace the trigger, it was worn bad enough it was doubling. The bolt release broke the first day I had it at the range. The cam pin was galled about the same time the trigger went. The gas key worked loose not too long after that. M1S is crap.
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Old December 7, 2012, 08:37 AM   #15
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valleyforge.1777 Sir, i offer to you ALL the "useful information" and truth about R-Guns, and there is nothing "vague" in those messages and replies, some may say, "ooooh ! that was a long time ago".., yaaa, maybe so but some things never change, as stated, on one site, "But.., he is still a felon"

valleyforge.1777,
Quote:
I was looking at AR's on the website for R-guns. Do not see anything there that raises any red flags. Can someone give a little more info about the problems that have been encountered when dealing with them? All we have seen posted so far are very vague "warnings" that do not really convey any useful information.
here is a start: http://www.google.com/search?client=...w=1035&bih=611
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Old December 7, 2012, 08:44 AM   #16
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Quote:
AKsRul.e- several hundred rounds is nothing. Let me know after several thousand. At just under 1K I had to replace the trigger, it was worn bad enough it was doubling. The bolt release broke the first day I had it at the range. The cam pin was galled about the same time the trigger went. The gas key worked loose not too long after that. M1S is crap.
out of curiosity how many rounds did you fire that first range trip?
my 9mm from M1s has close to 2,000 rounds through it now with no sign of parts wear.

also, many people go with M1S or other parts kits distributers because they don't have the cash for high end ARs and 1,000 round range trips. several hundred rounds by most AR owner's standards is quite respectable. if you can afford to shoot several thousand rounds then you can also afford to buy a high tier AR instead of rolling your own from M1S.
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ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
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Old December 7, 2012, 08:06 PM   #17
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I asked for details, real info. All I got was a Google search result that has ARF-dot-com posts from 2003. If there were legal violations, R Guns would not still be selling rifles, so I am going to dismiss what those AFR.com posts talk about.

So, I will ask again, one more time, does anyone have any specific problem or know of any specific problems with buying from R Guns?
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Old December 7, 2012, 08:40 PM   #18
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I've purchased several lowers from R-Guns over the last 2 years w/o any problems. Nov 13, I ordered 5 lowers which have not been shipped yet. Monday, I plan to give them a call to find out what is going on.
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Old December 7, 2012, 10:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
If there were legal violations, R Guns would not still be selling rifles,
not necessarily.
the fellows at Red Jacket Arms(the company depicted on discovery channel's show "sons of guns") has lost their FFL due to failing ATF inspections and yet they continued to operate under an employee's personal FFL until he up and quit and now are operating under another "friend of a friend's" FFL.

there are always loopholes that can be exploited and disreputable companies operate under the radar in this manner all the time. I am not saying R-guns is one of those companies or not but to assume that just because the gubment says "no" so they are going to move on and work at burger king for the rest of their lives is a flawed and even naive.
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ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
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Old December 8, 2012, 02:20 AM   #20
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In April or May of this year, I purchased a 20" heavy contour A3 from R-Guns. I put it on a DPMS A2 lower, swapped all the stocks for Precision Arms walnut stocks and grip. It only took about 40 rounds to get sighted/broke in. Actually, that's all the ammo I took to the range on it's first outting. I was intending to take a M1A to a match the next day, but I didn't use small base dies on the reloads, so the usual .308 ammo I load for my Rem 788 wouldn't work in the M1A. So there I was with only 1 rifle I knew was 'on' as far as sighting- so I took the R-Gun/DPMS. Anyway, first match, didn't do so hot (389). Second match the next weekend- figgered out the clicks and pulled off a 452 out of 500.

The upper arrived in a timely manner, ordering process was quick and easy, and it arrived well packaged/protected.

The finish is darker than what's on the DPMS lower. I know there are two different commonly used parkerizing finishes- don't know what they are, nor do I particularly care. Either way, the R-Gun finish looks closer to the finish on the last new-issue M-16A2 I was asked to carry around for Uncle Sam. The bolt carrier was the typical SA type, well staked key, good even finish, no burrs, or any other complaints. The bolt shows a little more looseness in the gas rings, but so far- everything there seems fine.

The 40 round break-in before hauling it off to a match- I know, that was silly. But I'll esplain. After an initial cleaning, I left it only a little wet with Ballistol. I loaded 3-rounds for sighting per clip. It had no failures to feed/fire/eject, however it did have a noticeable rough and sluggish feel that gradually went away during those initial 40 rounds. I'm not saying it was 100% broken in at the end of those 40 rounds, but it performed well enough that I didn't lose any sleep about taking it to the next day's match.

Between the first shot, two matches, oh and 40 more plinking/practice rounds I finally broke down and gave it another cleaning. I noticed more crud in the chamber than I expected. Everything else cleaned up as well as any other AR/M-16 I've cleaned. I saw no problems or issues that raise concerns.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the R-Guns upper and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to others. I haven't checked into the problems others have had, and I don't see a reason to. Like I said- so far, mines been great.
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Old December 8, 2012, 09:35 AM   #21
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Quote:
valleyforge.1777 I asked for details, real info. All I got was a Google search result that has ARF-dot-com posts from 2003. If there were legal violations, R Guns would not still be selling rifles, (he is still doing business under his Dads name) so I am going to dismiss what those AFR.com posts talk about.

So, I will ask again, one more time, does anyone have any specific problem or know of any specific problems with buying from R Guns?

i have no idea what you want as proof this guy, "R-Guns" (Roger Krahl) is a bona-fide criminal.., a FELON !!

if you want to do business with him.., fine !!

us more knowledgeable folks who have had bad dealings with him will stay away. he once posted ALL my personal info (along with several other customers who got screwed) from an order, including CC # on Arfcom, which got him banned.

are you Mr. R-Guns in disguise ??
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Old December 8, 2012, 11:16 PM   #22
valleyforge.1777
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First, I don't care if he is a felon. I am going to presume that the government does not let people (corporations are people, you know) sell firearms without a valid license. If it is his brother's, father's, an employee's, his bestest buddy from the third grade, whatever, I don't care as long as the government does not care.

Second, I asked for you to tell me something specific about R Guns that led you to feel strongly that one should not buy from them. I don't care about 2003. I care about now, as in "Is it safe for me to buy a rifle from them over the Internet, will I have a hassle getting the products I ordered, will there be problems with not getting quality equipment, etc?" That's what I want to know, and so far the info you have provided has not answered any of those kinds of questions.

Third, I don't like the part about him posting your personal info on the Internet. That is not good, and that raises a red flag for me, but may not wave the flag high enough for me not to purchase from R Guns but it makes me want to be more cautious. Maybe there is something to what you are saying. Maybe, then, you can provide more info, particularly about recent events/purchases/feedback, etc. 2003 was a LONG time ago.
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Old December 9, 2012, 10:02 AM   #23
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Quote:
2003 was a LONG time ago.


no sheet !! that is when i quit doing business with him, getting burned once was enough for me, if you want more recent info, then make an order with him.., say in the tune of $1,385.95, wait 10 days, then ask, "where are my parts" ? after three weeks, again ask, "where are my parts", after two months demand your money be refunded..., that is when the "FUN" begins !!

then....................,
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Old December 9, 2012, 07:56 PM   #24
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All I know is that 8 or 9 months ago, I went to their site, found what I wanted, whipped out the plastic and had my stuff at my door in just under 2 weeks. Never had to call their CS. 10/11 years was a long time ago in my books. I suspect that in such a timeframe, in today's market, a company will get their poop together or they will be pushed out of business.

Heck, even Military Logistics Manufacturers Inc. has done a 180 and managed to keep their doors open, so why not expect an outfit like R-Guns to do the same?
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