The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 23, 2012, 11:23 AM   #1
bushwackeralligator
Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 18
Help !! New guy at Forum needs coaching on 30-06 reloading

Hello fellow reloaders, I bought some dies that are CH Chrome dies for the 30-06 Springfield. Stamped on the die it says .30-06 US. I think I bought the wrong dies because when resizing the brass, the die only goes 3/4 the way down over the brass not the whole way down. I read on the reloaders.com page that there is a cartridge known as the .30-06 Ackley. So there is more than one type of .30-06 ? What the heck ??? I don't have any instructions, and can't find any on the web for these dies. Can anyone help me out with this ? If I can't use these they will go back on Ebay.
bushwackeralligator is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 12:10 PM   #2
eddyb74
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 219
http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w3006imp.html

Are you using lube to resize?
eddyb74 is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 01:43 PM   #3
1stmar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,067
The lock ring is loosened and the die is tightened down to touch the shell holder?
1stmar is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 01:57 PM   #4
Hylander
Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2008
Location: California
Posts: 94
If marked 30-06 U.S. then the dies you have are correct for the 30-06 Springfield cartridge.
Provided you have the dies set up proper in the press, it sounds like you have not lubed the cases.
Even if the dies where for the AI, the cases the would still full lenght size easily.
__________________
Today is my Best Day.
Lincoln, Ca.
Hylander is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 02:02 PM   #5
bushwackeralligator
Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 18
Yes

Yes I am using Lube, and yes the die is a nickels distance to the ram. If I pushed down any harder the press would break my table off. Something isn't right. I am hoping someone with one of these exact dies will school me on whether this die is really for my brass or is it for something else cause it isn't working like any of my other dies. I reload all kinds of pistol ammo, but seeing there is different kinds of dies for rifle like neck only, partial, and full sizing I don't know ? I want to full length size because I am using a Rem 760 pump rifle. Thanks for the responses.
bushwackeralligator is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 02:10 PM   #6
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,533
There is an -easy- and fool proof solution to this situation...
Just pony up and buy a new die set. Really, they aren't all that expensive. If your dies truly are Ackley Improved dies, there is a resale market for those.

Many of us absolutely -LOVE- Lee brand dies. You can get by with a simple Lee "RGB" two-die set in .30-06 and it's (by far!) the cheapest set of new dies you'll find...anywhere.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 02:12 PM   #7
1stmar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,067
Not familiar w ch dies, but most dies indicate fl for full length sizing. Can you provide more info, it would be helpful. What type of press? How do you know the die is only going sizing the case about 3/4, are you smoking the case? Is the brass fire formed in your rifle? Are they trimmed? Did you have a headspace comparator and have you checked to see if the should is being pushed back. Do the cases chamber after being resized?
1stmar is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 02:12 PM   #8
bushwackeralligator
Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 18
Question within a question ???

Here's a thought, and a question. Is it possible that the dies are stamped wrong ? In other words could the one stamped as a sizer actually be the seater and vice versa ? because the seater goes all the way down the brass case snugly, while seating the bullet wouldn't require for the brass to go all the way into the die ? I gotta try it and see.
bushwackeralligator is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 02:14 PM   #9
1stmar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,067
Is there a decaing pin inthe sizer ?
1stmar is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 02:29 PM   #10
bushwackeralligator
Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 18
Nope

Well, they aren't working turned around. Could they be marked .30-06 U.S. and be for a .30-30 . Geez, this is frustrating. Still looking for expert on CH dies. Thanks for replies.
bushwackeralligator is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 02:41 PM   #11
bushwackeralligator
Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 18
Sevens

I may have to Pony up. Let me ask you this, cause I haven't loaded rifle till now. If I get a set of Lee Deluxe Dies, and they say that they will size the full length and without lube, will the entire piece of brass go into die ? My straight walled pistol brass cases work like that. That is what I'm after. Still, I hate to sell the ones I have to someone else and not be able to tell them the truth about these. I mean if they are a partial sizer then I should list it as such. Thoughts ?
bushwackeralligator is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 02:41 PM   #12
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 1,967
Dies are dies

Experts in a givne die can't help you (the only experts are the people who make them, the rest of us are end users)

Most dies require bit o cam over. So they are set to have contact.

Call CH and ask them to take dies back and check or get someone local to look at them.

Neck re-size size maybe?
RC20 is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 03:03 PM   #13
bushwackeralligator
Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 18
RC20

Right, lesson learned. Another Ebay blunder trying to go on the cheap I guess. I figured someone older would know about these, CH isn't in buisness that I know of. I figured all dies were full length. Probably why there not in business anymore. But, in saying that Dies are not Dies, there are differences. I always used Lee carbide dies for pistol because they require no lubrication of the brass when sizing. So I am going to get a brand new Lee Deluxe set for .30-06 Springfield and be done with it. It will set me back 50 bucks. Thats three times what I paid for for the CH brand. But what the heck, I'm a Jewish Millionare.
bushwackeralligator is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 03:04 PM   #14
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,533
The Lee Deluxe rifle die set includes the exclusive to Lee collet neck-only size die.

This die is a great tool and using it requires no lube -- HOWEVER -- it's only to be used with brass that has most recently fired in the SAME rifle and furthermore, it's only meant for rifles that are single shot and bolt-action.

Simply put, a slide/pump, lever action or semi-auto rifle doesn't have the strength to reliably muscle brass that has NOT been full length sized in and out of the rifle's chamber.

NOTE: If you attempt to make ammo with just this die and not using a full-length sizer, you may run in to difficulties with chambering and unchambering a round.

NOTE: If you attempt to run a piece of bottle neck rifle brass in to any full length sizing die without case lube, you may have one HELLUVA awful time trying to then extract that piece of brass from that die. Do NOT do it, or be sure to capture full video of yourself attempting it as it'll be a hoot to watch on Youtube as you pull all your hair out trying to figure out what to do next.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 03:07 PM   #15
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,533
Just to be clear, I *do* recommend that you buy the Deluxe set that includes the very cool and useful collet neck-only size die because I think it's a terrific tool and it will be worth owning for your uses in the future.

But to reiterate: if the only rifle you intend to load .30-06 for is your Remington pump rifle then be sure to NOT use your cool new collet neck-only size die at this time. It'll only lead to frustration and possible frustration used in concert with that particular rifle.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 03:13 PM   #16
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,343
I assume that these are your dies?

They certainly are for .30-06 Springfield.

Ackley dies would not be the answer anyway. Ackley dies would size your brass just as easily as standard dies, the brass would just look "funny" when it came out.

I would suggest dissembling the dies and making sure that everything looks correct. Make sure there's not a broken cases stuck inside. Remove the decapping pin and try sizing a case. If that works, reinsert the pin and make sure it's adjusted properly.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is online now  
Old December 23, 2012, 03:16 PM   #17
bushwackeralligator
Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 18
Sevens

Your messin' with my head now !!! Does it have a full length sizer in the package, or just the neck sizer ??
bushwackeralligator is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 03:21 PM   #18
bushwackeralligator
Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 18
Brian

That was the best answer I got. I never thought to look inside to see if someone left part of a case inside. I'll be back with the answer.
bushwackeralligator is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 03:35 PM   #19
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,533
The Deluxe Set has THREE dies in it. One of them is a full length size die, one is the collet neck-only size die, the 3rd die is a bullet seating die.

Any place you might order a set of these likely explains that in the product description.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 03:43 PM   #20
bushwackeralligator
Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 18
Brian

There is nothing inside the die keeping it from going all the way up. However, I learned that the die is not deep enough for the brass to go all the way in. When looking with a flashlight inside and while running a peice of brass upwards I noticed the neck or mouth of the case was hitting the top of the die where the threads for the decapping pin screws down in. So, thanks for taking the time to get my lazy butt into investigating what was going on inside the die itself. It is definately a partial die because it's not designed to go into the die the whole way. What is the purpose of this kind of die ? Match shooting ? Aggrevation to the reloader ? If it's the latter, it worked pretty good !!
bushwackeralligator is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 03:52 PM   #21
bushwackeralligator
Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 18
Many thanks !!!

Thank you all for replying to my question. Merry Christmas, Happy Holiday's, stay safe !!
bushwackeralligator is offline  
Old December 23, 2012, 03:53 PM   #22
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,343
Is the body of the case in contact with the walls of the die?

Neck-only dies would not contact the case body.

It still seems like a mystery to me.

Is that picture that I linked to in my first post from the actual action, are those the dies you're using? If so, I see no indication that it should be a neck sizing die and the instructions indicate that lube is required, indicating that it's NOT a neck only die.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is online now  
Old December 23, 2012, 04:43 PM   #23
Mike / Tx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2000
Posts: 1,244
I have and still use a set of those exact dies. They were part of my pop's gear I took over. He purchased his back around '62 and they are a bit cantankerous I'll admit.

Your best bet with them is to take a 38 or 44 cal cleaning brush and polish the inside up nice. It might even help to use say a 30 cal rifle brush with a bit of 0000 steel wool wrapped around it. You simply want to shine it up really well and make sure there isn't any surface rust in there.

After that get you some Lanolin, or some Mink Oil and smear a bit on a Q-tip and swab the insides up nicely with it. Not to the point of having any globs, just a light but good coating. The best lube to use with these type dies is Imperial sizing die wax, or Hornady Unique Case Lube, or Redding Original Formula Case Lube. to be honest I think it is all about the same stuff marketed under different brand names, and probably more lanolin than anything else but I can't be sure.

Anyway, when you lube your cases take some of the above mentioned lube and smear it into you left palm then rub your hands together to apply it to both, then grab up around 5-6 cases depending on how many you can hold flat across your palms and rub the lube on them then size.

Those dies get awful sticky if they sit so you might have to make sure you clean them every once in a while. They are great old dies and I could not begin to try and tell you how many rounds have been through the set I have. They still get some use even though I have two other sets now.
__________________
LAter,
Mike / TX
Mike / Tx is offline  
Old December 25, 2012, 07:35 AM   #24
hooligan1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 3,246
He needs to reread his loading manuals....he didn't adjust dies correctly and he's not lubing properly = brass disaster!
__________________
Thanks for coming!
hooligan1 is offline  
Old December 25, 2012, 08:03 AM   #25
Bart B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 4,389
Does that sizing die push the primer out with the case head half an inch or so short of the bottom of the die?

Betcha a dollar that the decapping pin stem is set too low and the bottom of the case stops against it before the case goes all the way into the full length sizing die.

I once helped a friend fix this problem with a set of .270 dies he bought from someone.

So, reset the decapping pin to a higher position such that it pushes out the primer in the last 1/16ths inch of case movement into the die.
__________________
US Navy Distinguished Marksman Badge 153
Former USA Palma Team Member
NRA High Power Long Range High Master
NRA Smallbore Prone Master
Bart B. is online now  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12697 seconds with 9 queries