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Old December 5, 2012, 12:35 AM   #1
Kevin_d77
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12ga 1oz 6 shot.....

Is this acceptable for home defense out a of a Mossberg 500 Persuader? I am total new to shotguns and am seeking as much knowledge as possible.
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Old December 5, 2012, 07:37 AM   #2
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Not in my house.

Bird shot is for birds. Get a few different types of buckshot, pattern them all, and use what works best for you.
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Old December 5, 2012, 08:16 AM   #3
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When you pattern the shotgun measure the distances in your house/apt. then pattern. You will be surprised at how dense the patterns are.
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Old December 5, 2012, 09:11 AM   #4
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Birdshot is is better than a knife, but you have to be very close. Inside a house, you will be very close.

That said, #1 Buckshot is what I prefer in a defense shotgun. Yes, you need to check patterns and you need to understand the effectiveness, penetrating ability etc.

Doing shooting reconstructions, I can tell you that birdshot inside 10 yards is messy and fatal, but it falls off fast. Buckshot, depending on load, pattern and distance can be effective out past 50 yards. I've looked at some data from real shootings with low recoil buck and while injured, past about 30 yards, it is not fatal with a cylinder choke.
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Old December 5, 2012, 09:23 AM   #5
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1 ounce of #6 is my go to pheasant load. It would be my first choice if defending my home against pheasants. For everything else there is buckshot #4 or slugs.
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Old December 5, 2012, 10:20 AM   #6
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Thanks for the replies and not crushing me for my ignorance. I have plenty of experience w pistols but this is my first shotgun. I guess I have just heard conflicting stories about the shells where so prefer the birdshot so it doesnt over penetrate but it is still an effective deterent. I have also heard of people loading 2 bird, 2 buck and then slugs following. Basically I am trying to learn as much as possible. I bought the Mossberg 500 Persuader w no stock and it holds 8 shells. I am contemplating buying a stock as well so any suggestions on that would be terrific too! Thanks!
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Old December 5, 2012, 10:24 AM   #7
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First, NEVER use the word "deterant" when talking about firearms. Their defensive use is to STOP an attack and protect innocent life. Deterant can be associated with "less lethal".

Second, get a stock.

Third, get some buckshot.

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Old December 5, 2012, 11:16 AM   #8
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Gotcha. Any recommendations on stocks?

My other current home defense rounds were .40 and a .45 so I guess buckshot makes sense anyway.
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Old December 5, 2012, 01:28 PM   #9
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My 12 gauge shotguns that are in the house for feral person defense are all loaded with 00 buck and the 20 gauge is loaded with # 4 buck. Would not trust bird shot. Would not want to get shot with it myself mind you, but would not trust it for the stated purpose.

The shotgun that's in the shop intended for feral cat defense is loaded with 1 1/4 oz of lead # 4 birdshot at 1300 FPS.
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Old December 5, 2012, 02:45 PM   #10
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Go to Midway, or CheaperThanDirt, or Brownells and search for a stock. Pick one you like.

For defense shotguns, most people run them too long. So I suggest a plastic stock and a KickEze sporting clays grind to fit pad. Cut off some stock, add the pad and countour it with rolled edges all around. Tape and belt sander to make general shape then 400 grit wet paper to smooth. I cut stocks so that there is about 1 to 2 inches between the back of my thumb and nose, or about 3/4 to 1" between the back of the stock and the front of my bicept with finger on the tirgger. You might have to have someone local help you or go look at one of the on-line videos about fitting combat shotgun stocks.
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Old December 5, 2012, 02:58 PM   #11
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I like #4 buck due to worries of over penetration through walls..I guess bird-shot is better than using a fork to defend yourself,but I am no expert.
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Old December 5, 2012, 05:48 PM   #12
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You guys need a home defense shotgun load with a 50 yard range? That's a pretty big house. If I fired buckshot from my bedroom door down my hallway, it would go through 3 sheetrock walls and in to two cars, before going through another wall into the neighbor's house. A slug would be even worse. I think 4 bird shot at 15 feet should be adequate.
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Old December 5, 2012, 08:05 PM   #13
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Pokey your right, 50 yards = 150 feet, 25 yards = 75 feet, at those distances they ARE really big house's/apts.
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Old December 5, 2012, 08:14 PM   #14
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This is what your #6 birdshot is worth: as a kid, I saw a farm cat accidentally get shot (it was in grass higher than its head where rabbits were being hunted) at 20 feet with a 1.25 oz. load of #6. The cat survived the wound to its side (a direct hit). As stated above, I would not want to be shot with a 1 ounce load of #6, but I certainly would not choose it for my self defense load.
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Old December 6, 2012, 04:29 PM   #15
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My own experience with #6 on knock down steel pepper poppers suggest it would do ok at home defense distances.
It really knocks down those full sized, heavy poppers at ten to fifteen yards.
The cat in the previous example might have been hit with less than the full load, or maybe a ricochet shot.
A direct hit at close range would probably have not left a whole cat.
Assuming it was a normal sized house cat and not a Bengal Tiger, that is.
Kevin, do some testing for yourself, don't take our word for it.

There was a discussion of this very subject on last Sundays Guntalk radio show.
A fellow called in to say that he has witnessed the results of birdshot on brown and grizzly bear.
Dead bear.
Another guy called in to say that he shot through a steel door and wall of a metal building with birdshot.
The show is available at Guntalk.com - follow the links to the current show listing.
The bigger the better, but don't sell birdshot short.
At close range, it's still a lot of lead in a concentrated area.
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Last edited by g.willikers; December 6, 2012 at 04:37 PM.
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Old December 6, 2012, 08:21 PM   #16
CurlyQ.Howard
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It was a direct hit - surely almost the full load. It was a mature Tomcat which had a heavy coat, and the #6 shot had to cut through some standing grass, but the cat's coat and hide absorbed the shot which failed not only to kill it but also to stop it from running all the way back to the barnyard. And, no, I could not believe it, but we were pleased that the cat survived the accidental shooting. All I am saying is that based on the cat shooting incident, I would not recommend one ounce of #6 birdshot as a self defense load (Who's to say the perp would turn and run away as did the cat once having been shot?). I am not saying that under optimal conditions that the one ounce #6 birdshot load would not get the job done (whatever the OP would consider successful). Honestly, I would be too skeptical that the load would be equal to the situation, and that is why I cannot recommend it.
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Old December 6, 2012, 09:57 PM   #17
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How come cops don't carry shotguns loaded with birdshot anyway?
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Old December 7, 2012, 10:39 AM   #18
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Because cops arent overly concerned w overpenetrating thru walls?

I was asking a question to be educated, not mocked. If you came to the handgun side of.the forum and asked a question surely you would get a straight answer.

Thank you for the helpful responses. I will keep on trying to learn. And for the record, just because cops carry something doesn't mean that its the best (see Glock)
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Old December 7, 2012, 01:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Jacksonville neighbors, including 68-year-old couple, get the jump on intruder

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2...#ixzz2EOLPqM1R
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Don't remember when or where I read it but it was a woman with small kids armed with a 20 gauge and birdshot who killed a black bear inside her cabin. On Barter Island off the coast of Alaska is an old guy who had to kill a polar bear in his doorway and all he had was a claw hammer.

I use #6 or #4 on turkeys but my HD load is #4 because of the short ranges and occupied bedrooms in my house. Birdshot is for Birds cowboys can come and protect my home for me if they think that is inadequate but if they shot my brother or sister they will wish I had talcum powder and feathers in my 20 gauge instead of #4 turkey loads. This one answer for all contingencies is the result of swallowing dogma they heard from other cowboys and not any real experience.
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Old December 7, 2012, 02:41 PM   #20
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If the perpetrator survived a shot to the face with #6 shot, they would have a perfect exhibit to display to a sympathetic jury in a civil trial. With #4 Buckshot, the only thing the Plaintiff's lawyer will have to work with are pictures of the body. Which would be more beneficial/less harmful for the Defendant?
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Old December 7, 2012, 08:07 PM   #21
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If you stopped a rape or kidnapping or arson or an assault with that face full of shot the jury will see a real ugly defendant. If he is 10' from, the muzzle of the gun they may be looking at a zombie. What they won't be looking at is your family scarred or crippled by errant shots.
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Old December 7, 2012, 08:26 PM   #22
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrxkjRXk7m8

Great video.
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Old December 7, 2012, 10:09 PM   #23
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I did see that video. I watched this video first however
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=hrxkj...%3DhrxkjRXk7m8
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Old December 7, 2012, 10:44 PM   #24
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what video?
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Old December 7, 2012, 10:49 PM   #25
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Try this again

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yIfil...%3DyIfilArIHlY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=yIfilArIHlY
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