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Old December 8, 2012, 07:19 AM   #1
kcub
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carry guns with lasers

I have come to the conclusion that lasers on your carry gun are important. Besides the odd movie theater massacre, most bad things that might happen to you are most apt to occur in low light situations; even in your home.

So, given that assumption, what are your personal choices?

Currently I have the Kimber Solo CDP LG which has proven itself 100% reliable through 200 rounds with assorted ammunition.

I also have a lasered Glock 21 next to my bed.
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Old December 8, 2012, 07:49 AM   #2
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My nightstand gun is a Sig P220 with Crimson Trace grips.

I agree that low light conditions are something one should prepare for.
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Old December 8, 2012, 08:40 AM   #3
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My nightstand gun is a S&W Model 65 w/Crimson Trace grips.
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Old December 8, 2012, 08:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
most bad things that might happen to you are most apt to occur in low light situations; even in your home.
I dont use or need lasers. Rarely am I in complete and utter darkness.
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Old December 8, 2012, 08:57 AM   #5
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My BUG is the only gun I have a laser on, it's a S&W j-frame with CT LG-105 grips. I like them for that purpose because I can put rounds on target without having to raise the gun and line up the sights. As long as I can grip the gun and see my target I can hit it.

My duty gun is a FNP45 Tactical with a Trijicon RMR02 mini red dot sight. At night I put a Streamlight TLR-1s on it and that's what goes on the nightstand.
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Old December 8, 2012, 09:54 AM   #6
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CT grips on Kimber and on a CZ 75B.
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Old December 8, 2012, 10:15 AM   #7
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Wifes Lady Smith M 60 has them . Great shooting acessory.
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Old December 8, 2012, 10:35 AM   #8
kcub
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Quote:
I dont use or need lasers. Rarely am I in complete and utter darkness.
What if someone in that Colorado movie theater shooting had lasered a round into the felon's face just as he started up? How many lives would have been saved? As I recall he had body armor, so how would you have any reasonable chance of hitting him in the face without a laser sight?
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Old December 8, 2012, 10:37 AM   #9
Zekest Crowe
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I can't tell if this thread is a running joke or not. Is the punch line "100% reliable through 200 rounds" or is the topic low light usage of a "laser vs a gun mounted light" or is it the running joke of a "Reliable Kimber Solo" (in this case maybe the only known one).
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Old December 8, 2012, 10:42 AM   #10
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I'm not a big fan of lasers, but I have night sights on all my handguns, which takes care of the low-light and no-light problem for me.
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Old December 8, 2012, 10:42 AM   #11
kcub
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Most pocket pistols start out with problems be they Kahr, Sig, whatever. The best idea is to not get one when they first come out, let them debug them. I believe the Kimber Solo has been debugged from my experience. You are welcome to joke about them, call me a liar, or set fire to yourself, whatever. I could care less if you do all 3.
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Old December 8, 2012, 02:22 PM   #12
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I have 4 handguns with lasers: SA .45, SW 638, Kahr PM9, RIA 9mm...
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Old December 8, 2012, 02:24 PM   #13
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I only have two lasers, both of which came with the two pistols as "part of the deal". Although I carry neither of these guns, the lasers on them have convinced me they are a great accessory to any CCW. They allow you to shoot accurately in ways simply not possible without a laser.

IMHO, laser use has nothing to do with light, low light, bright or dark, but rather it has to do with acquiring a target quickly without using the sights. Holding a pistol below the usual sightline, lased on target, gives the shooter a much better field of vision.

A laser can be a game changer all by itself as they may have a impact on the target's will to continue.

A laser is just another arrow in the quiver.
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Old December 8, 2012, 02:30 PM   #14
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personally would rather have night sights vs a laser that may become knocked out of alignment easier. Plus a laser can be a crutch as you will rely on it more to help you. If laser sights are so much of an advantage every military and police firearm would have them and every self defense training course would be recommending them.

I have shot several handguns with them and the laser i felt was more of selling point than actually useful.
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Old December 8, 2012, 05:50 PM   #15
kcub
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I also have a Ruger 22 with ct laser grips. Last week I shot a possum on the move 3 times, impossible without the laser.
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Old December 8, 2012, 06:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
personally would rather have night sights vs a laser that may become knocked out of alignment easier. Plus a laser can be a crutch as you will rely on it more to help you
CT laser grips have an advantage in that once you've got them adjusted properly they stay in alignment pretty well. As to them being a crutch... well, they supplement training and use of sights, they don't replace them. And in those situations where it might be hard to quickly pick up your front sight, they can be pretty useful.
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Old December 8, 2012, 06:04 PM   #17
Sparks1957
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Quote:
personally would rather have night sights vs a laser that may become knocked out of alignment easier. Plus a laser can be a crutch as you will rely on it more to help you
CT laser grips have an advantage in that once you've got them adjusted properly they stay in alignment pretty well. As to them being a crutch... well, they supplement training and use of sights, they don't replace them. And in those situations where it might be hard to quickly pick up your front sight, they can be pretty useful.

Quote:
A laser is just another arrow in the quiver
Precisely
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Old December 9, 2012, 09:18 AM   #18
Skadoosh
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kcub wrote:
Quote:
What if someone in that Colorado movie theater shooting had lasered a round into the felon's face just as he started up? How many lives would have been saved? As I recall he had body armor, so how would you have any reasonable chance of hitting him in the face without a laser sight?
'What if's' are just that. No one can answer your question. And I wasnt there with my carry gun.

Being in a movie theater does not mean that you are sitting in complete darkness. I have actually participated in several low light firearm training sessions. These scenarios included sudden loud noises and bright light startle effects through out the scenario, so I have a pretty good idea of what my limitations are when it comes to shooting in semi darkness with panic all around while experiencing an adrenaline dump. I am pretty sure that if I had been within 15-20ft of him and had an unobstructed shot, I am fairly confident of making a good shot...without a laser sight.

Lasers won't make a poor shooter better, only proper training does. Most of the shooting I have ever done with a laser showed that the laser slowed me down. I found that I am slightly quicker acquiring a target and aligning my sights than I am finding and controlling the laser dot.

In my experience, the only real advantage that laser sights offer is when shooting from the hip. For this reason only would I ever consider having a laser installed on my CCW.

As for stopping someone by simply "lasing" them, I have not seen any solid evidence that this is an actual advantage.
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Old December 9, 2012, 09:58 AM   #19
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All my carry guns have night sights. At PD ranges a laser is a hindrance to me.
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Old December 9, 2012, 10:07 AM   #20
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These are my feelings on the matter.

The longer the range the less effective a laser would be. The problem is a laser can only be precise at one distance, due to the nature of a laser beam, its large distance from the bore axis, and bullet drop. Think of a laser as the center of a cone which gets larger and larger as distance increases. It is basically saying your rounds will hit around here... Also the further out the laser the longer and harder it is for your eyes to notice. you wouldn't want to be 'searching' for you dot when you could've just used your irons.

I only have one laser a Viridian which is a green laser, and IMO is the only color I would bother using, Red is much to hard to see. My laser is sighted in at the massive distance of 25ft.

I feel that a laser is far more effective for quick close in work then precision distance shots. This allows me to fire accurately if for some reason I was unable to use proper iron sights.

Lasers have their place in SD but I don't feel that they should be used for distant shots.
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Old December 9, 2012, 10:15 AM   #21
Skadoosh
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Quote:
you wouldn't want to be 'searching' for you dot when you could've just used your irons.
Agreed...if I was the aurora shooter, God forbid, I would be shooting at any bright laser light (which if anywhere inside my peripheral vision is pretty hard not to notice) pointing at me.
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Old December 10, 2012, 05:02 PM   #22
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I had a laser on my G21 for awhile. I concluded that it was more of a novelty than a real help. Perhaps it was me, but the elevation gave me trouble at almost any distance except the exact distance that it was sighted in for.

Up close the laser wouldn't be any advantage, and at distance it takes more time than you may have available so I think, save your money. YMMV.
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Old December 11, 2012, 03:25 PM   #23
iraiam
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Quote:
I have come to the conclusion that lasers on your carry gun are important. Besides the odd movie theater massacre, most bad things that might happen to you are most apt to occur in low light situations; even in your home.
I will agree to a certain extent, My LCR has horribly invisible sights in low light so the laser on that revolver is very helpful to me. The laser is plenty accurate from 5-17 yards (for a human sized target) It is actually sighted for 7.5 yards but the laser is still accruate enough at 45 feet aiming at center mass (with a SD load), if I am 50+ feet away from the threat I am mostly trained to retreat to a defensible position if possible.

In the same low light I can see the sights on my Glock and Beretta 92FS, so a laser is less important on those guns.
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Old December 11, 2012, 03:38 PM   #24
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A laser isn't really anymore useful in lowlight than night sights. Where a laser really shines (haha!) is when you have to shoot from an unconventional position, when you can't see the sights, etc. I have a light on my HD gun, because target acquisition is absolutely paramount in that situation (don't want to shoot a family member stumbling around for a drink of water) but I don't see much need for a laser in most cases.

Maybe it's just me, but laser sights have always seemed to be a bit gimmicky. It's a crutch to proper sight picture. It's certainly nice to be able to have a point of aim if you can't use the sights for some reason, but in most SD/HD situations, I can't see many times that situation will arise.

tl;dr

Lasers, no. Mounted light + Night Sights, yes, yes, yes.
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Old December 11, 2012, 05:26 PM   #25
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I would never use a carry gun with a laser. For home defense fine. Think of how a DA is going to present that to a jury. The perception is to costly imo. If you need a laser to hit your target at SD ranges you need to practice more.
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