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Old December 13, 2012, 10:54 AM   #51
Gaerek
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Join Date: October 3, 2012
Location: Arizona
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Let me give you a timeline...

-3 years ago, my wife would have been appalled/angry/scared if I had a gun in the house.
-That's when she let me get a shotgun (Mossberg 500 Mariner) for bear protection after running into a bunch of fresh bear sign while hiking with our infant daughter
-2 years ago, she was apprehensive about the shotgun, but the idea of a handgun completely scared her
-That was when she went to take a handgun class with a friend (Woman on Target program) and said I could get a handgun for home defense
-A year and a half ago, she would have thought the idea of me carrying a gun concealed would be ridiculous, and would have made her nervous
-That was when her and I got our permits
-Last night, while walking out of the mall in the dark parking lot, she asked if I was packing. I smiled and nodded.

Your wife is where my wife was 3 years ago. It's not an easy road, and you have to be very careful about how you go about it. While you'll see people say things like, "You're an adult and can make your own decisions!" everyone has their own relationship dynamics, and that simply might not be completely possible.

My suggestion is to see if you can convince her to take a basic gun safety course with you. If you have to, bribe her (I mean it in the nicest way). Buy her something she's been wanting, or promise her a romantic dinner or weekend getaway. Heck, if I buy my wife a 2 hour massage with her favorite masseuse, I can get away with practically anything. I think once she see firearms being handled safely, she'll realize how safe guns really are. When she actually shoots, she'll be hooked for life. There isn't a single person I've ever taken shooting who hasn't asked me later if I would take them again.
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Old December 14, 2012, 08:12 AM   #52
Dwight55
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Quiller, . . . you do have a problem, . . . but it is not insurmountable.

Pax laid out the situation very well (just like she always does ) and many of the other posts did as well.

Your wife just needs to be convinced, . . . and it unfortunately will probably take an "incident" to make it happen.

As an example, about 2 weeks before we moved onto our property, a 9 year old girl was abducted, raped, and killed about 35 miles from here. Her body was dumped less than a mile from our house site, . . . and directly at the other end of a "hunting lane/path" that leads between the two.

I kept the details from my wife for a while (she doesn't do well with maps, geography, etc.) but finally told her all the details.

If there would have been any opposition, . . . it vanished after that incident.

I have also made it a point to play up any story I hear about where the good guy used or threatened to use his weapon to save himself or others.

Combined, . . . it has all worked, . . .

She was very unhappy the first time I brought a handgun into our first one bedroom apartment back in '68, . . . she now has her own 9mm, Det Spec .38, and .22 rifle.

Best wishes my friend.

May God bless,
Dwight
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Old December 14, 2012, 09:57 AM   #53
drail
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Just assure them that if they are attacked you won't get involved. My wife had a job that required her to travel and stay overnight frequently. I gently suggested she carry a gun but she was dead set against it. One night in Chicago some creep tried to get in her room. That turned her around 180 degrees. She carries all the time now.

Last edited by drail; December 14, 2012 at 10:03 AM.
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Old December 14, 2012, 09:58 AM   #54
Stressfire
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Quote:
Of course the custom jewelry bauble I buy for her each time I get a new gun might have something to do with the peace.
Good to know I'm not alone

Quote:
Lastly, the quality of your comments motivated me to show my wife the whole thread, and that made a difference in the end.
Careful with that, between Armybrat's and this post, she may get ideas

While there is some suck-factor to adding a couple hundred to the price of any new gun - if it keeps everyone a little more happy, so be it
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Last edited by Stressfire; December 14, 2012 at 10:07 AM.
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Old December 14, 2012, 06:03 PM   #55
Suuri Suomi
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quiller, I'll concur with everyone who said that deception/lying absolutely does not belong in a marital relationship. Unless, of course, you are one of those folks who likes power games and drama, or secretly enjoys destroying your partner's trust.

With all due respect, I also think it is very wrong to use a gun to get power over someone, and that's what I see you doing. You are using your firearm carrying as a way to win a disagreement between you and your wife. You are using a firearm to get the last word in that disagreement. In my view that's not what firearms are for. And I cannot pat you on the back for doing this, even as I understand and to some degree empathize with some parts of yor motive.

I comprehend your frustration and can well understand it. It is difficult to get on the same page with someone who is resistant to thinking about...well, all we have to think about, when we choose to be lawful, law-abiding, responsible CC citizens.

My first marriage was to a man who absolutely rejected RKBA and any suggestion that firearms might be a component of an intelligent, responsible, law-abiding way of living. So I respect your willingness to take responsibility for your own, as well as others', safety in situations that we all hope we will never have to face, but we do not wish to be caught unprepared for.

My thinking is this: before you come to the "emotional moment" where you can talk to your wife about this again, please break free of the thinking that says that guys can bully grrlz into agreeing on CC, directly or indirectly, by arguing, leaving articles on the pillow, or whatever. Or that you have to wait for "an incident."

My suggestion: if and when it's time to Have The Talk with her, have options for her to dialogue with WOMEN who carry concealed, or who have partners who do.

Especially effective? Those who didn't used to see the need for this, but came around because WE experienced "incidents." Your wife might see the issues a bit differently if she heard this from other women.

Because you are asking her for more than permission to CC. What you are basically asking her to do is relinquish a comfortable/safety-based (I'd say blindered) view of the world for one that considers, in every moment of every day, not only THAT bad things happen, but what they can be...and how one might respond. Every. Moment. Every. Day.

That is a big psychological shift. I came to it in my 20s after "feminist" self defense training that consisted of pulled punches, yelling, and a bunch of ideology. At the end I questioned the teachers and learned that they literally considered it more admirable for a woman to die at the hands of an attacker than to use lethal force to protect her body, dignity, and property.

Others' wake-up calls are different. But they may have in common that they are of a different quality for men than for women. And that can be hard to admit into one's psyche.

It is a hard thing, to go through life without having the easy bubble-wrapped view that so many have; it is a harder thing to surrender that if one has it. We hear this anytime there is a national tragedy involving firearms. "Well, I never thought it could happen HERE!"

To me, this is what CC means. It means I choose to join the ranks of those who accept the difficult truth, and stand up to those who would take advantage of the vulnerable. It probably helps that I was raised by my father, who held these values and modeled them, and encouraged them in me. I grew up rather more bold and adventurous than other girls I knew, and, might I add, often had more complex and rich experiences, because I felt safe not from ignoring danger, but from knowing I was prepared for it.

I wish you the best of luck and hope that however blunt my words are above, they come across with caring. Feel free to message me via the forum, though I don't check in here very often, and usually read without logging in.

Su
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Old December 21, 2012, 04:03 AM   #56
quiller333
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I don't need to have the last word, but some things were said in the previous comment by Suuri Suomi that required a response. (Didn't respond publicly because Suuri also sent a thoughtful note via private messaging and invited me to write back by e mail. I did, at length, addressing certain assertions in his/her public post. Haven't heard back. Had I, I probably wouldn't be writing this here.)

In brief:

"....Unless, of course, you are one of those folks who likes power games and drama, or secretly enjoys destroying your partner's trust."

The reason I posted the question to begin with was my decision to keep possession of a ccw a secret troubled me. Actually, lying about it was never an option. And there are different orders of deception: cheating on your spouse is at one end; telling your spouse that the abusive parent who just died loved her in his own way, well, that’s another.

"With all due respect, I also think it is very wrong to use a gun to get power over someone, and that's what I see you doing. You are using your firearm carrying as a way to win a disagreement between you and your wife. You are using a firearm to get the last word in that disagreement."

You are psychoanalyzing me here, ascribing motives based on a few sentences in a post. I suspect what roiled you was my comment that I “overruled” my wife on the matter of a gun for home defense. You make it sound like my decision to purchase a weapon was part of a power play to win an argument. Not so.

" . . . please break free of the thinking that says that guys can bully grrlz [sic] into agreeing on CC, directly or indirectly. . . ."

. . ."bullying” suggests browbeating, intimidation. If you knew my wife, you’d know better. She would bite my head off if I tried to browbeat or intimidate her.

"While I agree with Cat that you shouldn't have to ask for permission to be safe, etc., it is also the case that our marriages are places of vulnerability, as well as strength, and unilateral views and tactical use of force rarely works. . . ."

As I’ve indicated, there was no use of force, no browbeating, no verbal abuse in the exchanges prior to purchase of the home weapon. When the discussion stalled, I simply did what I thought was right—for both of us. There is a place for unilateralism in a marriage:

"If you don’t stop hitting me, I’m leaving."

"You may never have the kids in the car when you’ve been drinking."

Or how about, "Over your objections, I am going to do what I think I must to protect us both in the unlikely event that we are endangered in our own home."


To close, I agree with much of what Suuri said, but I had to clear the air on some statements.
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Old December 21, 2012, 02:05 PM   #57
tet4
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Quote:
You can bend stats, so hers is the simple one that houses with guns are more likely to have accidents with guns. Which is like saying households that own cars are more likely to have car accidents. But we still have cars.
quiller, I know you didn't post this, but I think you mentioned that you wife used this argument at some point. Since I didn't see anyone else say this yet, let me tell you that this has got to be the biggest and best used lie that the Brady campaign and media consistently use. However, the original study that this concept sprouted from is about the biggest piece of garbage research ever published. It's completely flawed, has been eviscerated numerous times, and yet the media won't let it go. After decades of hearing this, no wonder people generally freak out when their spouses want to get a gun for protection in the home.

The best thing you and your wife can do (now that you read through corneredcat.com) is to go to

http://gunfacts.info/

and read through it. Unlike the media, this reference actually sites real data, valid studies, and logic and I'm going to guess that you will be amazed at the truth. BTW, another fun one, look up:

Myth: You are more likely to be injured or killed using a gun for self-defense

in that text. The media have told us for decades that if you resist and attacker you are more likely to be injured. Of course, they leave off the most important part of the study - resistance with an ineffective weapon is more dangerous, while resistance with an effective weapon (specifically, a gun) is less dangerous than no resistance.

It's almost as if the media INTENTIONALLY does this, but I'm sure it's just coincidence, you know, for at least the last 40 years. So, understand that most of what your wife thinks she knows about guns and self defense has been mostly complete deception from the media.
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Old December 21, 2012, 04:10 PM   #58
Lon308
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God bless everyone who advocates Scrupulous Honesty here, but:

I am a retired law enforcement officer. I have CCW privileges through the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, and I also obtained a CCW Permit through my state of residence (to cover any period that my Annual Qualification may have lapsed).

My wife knows all of this. She also knows that I commonly go the range for routine practice.

Some threats were made on me a few years ago, and so I started carrying during every waking hour. I used a gun that is easy to conceal: a Kel-Tec 380. It goes in my front pocket, and no one knows it - not even my wife.

A few weeks ago, my wife said, "You don't carry your gun very much, do you?"

I just mumbled, "Oh well...." and walked away.

(I don't believe in making trouble nor drawing attention to yourself.)
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Old December 22, 2012, 12:31 AM   #59
Newton24b
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well let them go take a trip to any rape center. perhaps meeting someone who just got violated by 5 or 6 street people may change their mind.
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