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Old November 30, 2012, 01:20 PM   #1
warbirdlover
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Experts advice Please

I've got a load worked up (with help from SIL) of 100 gr of Blackhorn 209, PowerBelt 245 gr aero tip and standard 209 primer. It groups good at 100.

My question is...

How many in here prefer the pellets (WhiteHots) over powder for hunting?

Give your suggestions please. Thanks.
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Old November 30, 2012, 03:22 PM   #2
FrontierGander
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BH209 for me as well. Pellets is rookie stuff and more expensive to shoot.
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Old November 30, 2012, 06:27 PM   #3
PetahW
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I weaned myself off of substitutes several years ago, and use only Holy Black since.


.
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Old November 30, 2012, 07:04 PM   #4
Pahoo
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In search of perfection !!

To date, have not shot "White-Hots" nor have I gotten around to shooting Blackhorn-209. ....

However, I have used pellets in the past and I still keep coming back to loose powder. I cannot reach my optimum loads with pellets and frankly, I just don't trust them as loose is more redictable. The only "slight" advantage that I have ever seen in pellets is ease of loading but that's not a big deal, is it?

Quote:
and use only Holy Black since.
You can't get more predictable than this and hardly if ever, gets old. ...
However, I will never go back to using it. .... JMHO

Be Safe !!!
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Old November 30, 2012, 07:56 PM   #5
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My post mirrors that of Pahoo's to a tee.
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Old November 30, 2012, 08:08 PM   #6
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"Pellets is rookie stuff and more expensive to shoot".

Really?

What is REALLY expensive is missing the wall-hanger of a lifetime stuck on something that works for someone else. If I get a trophy with a bow, crossbow, cap & ball musket, in-line, using Swiss, or Goex, .50 or .54 cal, pellets or powder, etc. etc. etc. Is that animal concerned with what I got them with?

There is NO MORE (or less) HONOR in taking an animal with whatever you have, (doing your homework & to the best of your ability), with modern tools/equipment/powder.

Are we saying, there is more honor in using a bow and arrow vs. crossbow? More honor using iron sights on a musket with Goex? Using pellets rather than loose powder? Maybe more honor in using a musket cap or #11 than a .209? Using technology is "rookie stuff"?

USE WHAT WORKS FOR YOU AND WHAT YOUR GUN LIKES!
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Old November 30, 2012, 08:23 PM   #7
joshobrien77
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Here is what works for me. 150gr pyrodex pellets (3 of them) under a Powerbelt 245gr Aerotip. Groups like a champ out to 200yds out of my TC. Use a winchester 209 to set it off.

I'm sure I can get better loads with loose but honestly its not worth the hassle or potentially messing up the load under pressure. I have shot loose and percussion caps but the tech exists to eliminate it and still let me have a great legal long gun for deer in Ohio.

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Old December 1, 2012, 12:09 PM   #8
warbirdlover
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Okay. I've got a question on using 3 pellets. That's 150 gr of powder! All the muzzleloader manufacturers seem to recommend 120 gr powder as max. CVA is one of these. Then in the CVA video showing how to load the rifle they're using 3 Whitehot pellets!

Isn't 3 pellets dangerous?
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Old December 1, 2012, 12:16 PM   #9
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3 pellet loads in a modern cva is fine if its rated for it. Its not needed and clearly will not always be the most accurate.

The down side to pellets "the rookie stuff" is they go bad within a year, you pay up the rear end for only 25 to 50 shots depending if you use 2 or 3 pellets. The biggest concern is the moisture they suck up. A package of my T7 pellets i recently opened were crumbling and needless to say, accuracy wasnt even there at only 50 yards.

Biggest deal and some others have voiced, the ability of fine tuning your charge to hit that sweet spot the rifle loves, isn't there.
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Old December 1, 2012, 01:44 PM   #10
Pahoo
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Trust ??

Quote:
All the muzzleloader manufacturers seem to recommend 120 gr powder as max.
Not all but at first, most did. In order to stay competative most are now rated for a max of 150. I do know that putting 150, into an old SideLock, can be dangerous. ....

Now, I see you from the Midwest and being from Iowa, I have never had the need to load beyond 100. In fact, my optimum hunting load it 95grs. I know many Midwest hunters that are routinely shooting 85grns. However, it's entirely your call. ....

Quote:
The down side to pellets "the rookie stuff" is they go bad within a year, you pay up the rear end for only 25 to 50 shots depending if you use 2 or 3 pellets
So true and typical for most if not all pellets. As I said, they are not very predictable and your trust goes out the window along with the $$$. ..
All to often, I hear complaints about pellets but they keep buying them. ..

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 1, 2012, 03:09 PM   #11
BirchOrr
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3 pellets?

Most modern in-lines will safely shoot 150gr. This is not to say that's what you should shoot. Most of the "big shooters" agree, a 28 inch barrel will only burn about 120gr. of powder. If you like pellets, T7 makes Magnum pellets in 60gr. Drop 2 down the barrel and you're good to go.

I store mine in their original container and keep that in a waterproof military ammo box. Never had any problems using them a year later.

Keep yer powder dry!
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Old December 1, 2012, 08:46 PM   #12
smokepole14
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All I have used is white hots and have found no reason to change. Out of my cva wolf the grouping is good and cleanup is a breeze. It works for me and I like em.
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Old December 3, 2012, 09:37 AM   #13
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I have tried White Hots and my gun didn't seem to like them.........but that's my gun. All guns have their unique preferences, what mine likes yours might spray bullets all over the broad side of a barn. What I can tell you is that when tested through a chrongraph, the White Hots were slower and more inconsistent in velocities than both 777 mag pellets and Blackhorn 209. Further more, you may find that the White Hots shoot a particular bullet like a champ and yet another bullet you would be better off throwing the bullets by hand rather than sending it down the barrel.
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Old December 3, 2012, 03:09 PM   #14
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I use T7 pellets just for ease of use. Don't have to worry about them sitting for a year. I have a 10 year old nephew that would shoot a box a day if he could. I have two tc encores that don't like three pellets at all. I have a tc omega that loves three pellets. As for the difference between T7 and white hots, my good buddy swears his white hots clean up better but for some reason I usually get done first. I have shot them and I can't see a performance advantage over T7 so I just stick with what works. The buck I shot this year couldn't tell!
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Old December 3, 2012, 04:06 PM   #15
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Oh ya, I'm using 270 gr power belt platinum a through the omega. I found the 245 copper ones were splattering when I hit bone. The platinum a mushroom and stay in tact.
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Old December 3, 2012, 06:59 PM   #16
BirchOrr
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The original question...

was...
Quote:
How many in here prefer the pellets (WhiteHots) over powder for hunting?
When I first saw WhiteHots, I HAD to try them. Saw no significant advantage in using them over T7 pellets. Didn't clean up easier, shoot hotter, etc. Went back to T7. This year I went to the T7 Magnum Pellets as they are 60 grainers rather than 50. Don't use 150 grains as a 28 inch barrel, won't BURN that much powder anyway. The combo of 120gr. of T7 pellets, Barnes 250gr. TMZ through a T/C Triumph is magic. That combo works in MY GUN.

I also religiously swab the bore with 2 or 3 wet patches followed by a few dry patches at the range or in the field. NO MATTER WHAT! I want EVERY shot to be the same... consistent. I carry my T/C wet patches in a Skoal can in my pocket (to keep them warm) They fit perfect and WILL freeze up here in late season MI temperatures!

I LOVE the Barnes sabots. Deadly, match grade ammo, and no fragmentation. They do load a bit tight in the Triumph. I don't mind that and prefer it. Using a Nikon 3-9 Omega scope on it. All the aforementioned is a PERFECT whack machine and have taken several deer with it at 250 + yds. Never have missed but if I did have it happen, it was because I did something wrong.

Go get 'em!
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Old December 4, 2012, 09:49 PM   #17
warbirdlover
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Quote:
Oh ya, I'm using 270 gr power belt platinum a through the omega. I found the 245 copper ones were splattering when I hit bone. The platinum a mushroom and stay in tact.

tchunter
SIL said this is true but the 245 copper ones really put them down! Do the platinum drop them the same way? What's your load?
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Old December 5, 2012, 11:40 AM   #18
tchunter
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Since switching to the platinum a I've had great results. On pass through shots it's hard to prove. I shot a buck last year ranged at 128 yards quartering away. Bullet entered just in front of hind quarter and passed all the way through the opposite front shoulder. When I skinned him I found a perfectly mushroomed sabot not missing any large pieces. He went 15 yards and down. This year on the shot gun opener while using my tc I shot a nice buck through the center of the shoulder. It was the only shot I had. I ranged a tree he was behind at 55 yards. When I skinned him I found an identical mushroomed sabot to the one from the year before. It went through both shoulders and stuck in the skin. Dropped him right there. Had the same results with several does as well. I'm shooting a TC Omega, Nikon omega 3-9, 3 T7 pellets, powerebelt platinum 270 gr aero tip, Remington primer. If I use a shockwave with this combo it won't expand. Have to drop to 2 pellets.
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Old December 7, 2012, 01:10 PM   #19
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Since this thread has turned into a multiple subject topic, I will throw in a few thoughts.

I have spent so much money on every new thing that comes out, it is almost embarrassing. I have found, as others, that in order to get your rifle to shoot to the maximum accuracy, it is better to use loose powder because it can be custom metered down to the grain. I have tried all of the substitutes and have pretty much come to the conclusion, that it really depends on what you like. One really isn't THAT much better than the other. Some are easier to clean, and some are a little hotter than others, but in the long run, each can be charged to deliver accuracy if you play with them long enough.

When rifles started being manufactured for 150 grains of powder, the problem with shooting that much powder was mostly in the sabots. The plastic just would not hold up to that kind of pressure, and it took a while for the sabot manufacturers to adjust their plastic mixture to get a sabot that would hold up. MMP and others, now have sabots that will hold up under that kind of pressure and I am seeing that there are several rifles that will shoot very accurately with a 150 grain charge. Most rifles will shoot their most accurate within the 120 maximum charge range, although their are some that will shoot the same accuracy with 150 grains.

As far as bullets go, I shoot Hornady 250 grain hollow points, and I can't see a bit of difference in all the other bullets out there. They mushroom perfectly at all charges from 90 grains all the way up to 150 grains, with most rounds being pass through shots, that leave a good blood trail.
I tried the pointed nosed bullets from several different manufacturers and found that they did not mushroom as well as the hollow points. According to the hype, they are supposed to give a flatter trajectory, although at front stuffer velocities, you have to cut back on the charge for them to mushroom right, which makes more of a rainbow trajectory, which goes against why you bought them in the first place.
Unless you can get velocities of around 2100 fps, I don't think the pointed front is worth the price.

Presently I am using a Savage MLII at around 2200 fps using Vit 110 powder, with a .45 caliber, 250 grain Hornady bullet in a .50 caliber sabot from MMP. This round shoots clover leafs at 100 yards. The cost of a round for me is around .90 cents. That includes title, tax, and tires off the old one. I shoot a lot and this combo is the cheapest and most accurate I can get for the buck.

Just my 2 cents
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