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Old December 21, 2012, 12:33 AM   #1
pelo801
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low velocity wad cutters in 38 spcl

if the only loads that you were comfortable with were some low velocity loads, say in the low 600 fps area, would you recommend using a wad cutter projectile? or what other bullet type would you suggest for this velocity?
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Old December 21, 2012, 12:43 AM   #2
jmortimer
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Yes, low recoil, inherent accuracy, max meplat, and fantastic/incredible straight-line penetration. Here is article from Guns and Ammo Handgun Magazine web site dated 9-24-2010 entitled "Wicked Wadcutters"
http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/2...utters_200901/
Here is Brassfetcher video of a Federal 148 grain wadcutter blowing through 12" of 20% ballistic gelatin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=iolV5KOUtsc
That is a beautiful thing, at around 650 fps out of a 642 2" J Frame, seeing over 12 inches of penetration - right on through
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Old December 21, 2012, 08:21 PM   #3
anzafrank
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I don't load my own, so I'm wondering if there are any store bought wad cutters out there that would penetrate lets say 14 inches in ballistic gelatin? That would go a long way for comfortable shooting and sd etc.

Frank
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Old December 21, 2012, 08:36 PM   #4
bamaranger
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bare hands

Beats bare hands for most of us or a sharp stick.

My J-frame is the "wife gun". All 95 lbs of her with a pocket full of ammo to boot. The Chief Special is manageable for her and it's loaded with factory WC.
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Old December 21, 2012, 08:36 PM   #5
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The picture doesn't match the box, but these Winchester wadcutters say 710 fps and I would imagine any commercial wadcutters would be loaded to a similar velocity.

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...38SMRP&src=sim

I use full wadcutters in all my carry and HD guns... .38 sp and .45 ACP (revolvers)
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Old December 21, 2012, 08:39 PM   #6
pelo801
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https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=111
these aren't exactly what i was talking about, but they might interest you.
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Old December 21, 2012, 09:32 PM   #7
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Thanks for the links.
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Old December 21, 2012, 11:55 PM   #8
Newton24b
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if your worried about penetration wad cutters goo deep.

theres an online gun magazine that did a snub nose revolver test with standard 148 to 158 grain ammo. standard penetration was 20-30 inches. heavier bullets went in farther.

thats the thing wtih a short barrel, you got to try to maximize on something thats reachable..
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Old December 22, 2012, 12:41 AM   #9
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^ I would like to see a link to that. Sounds right up my alley.
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Old December 22, 2012, 12:43 AM   #10
colbad
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I played around with turning them backwards and making them a giant hallow point. They were accurate and opened up huge. Don't know what the velocity was.
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Old December 22, 2012, 12:59 AM   #11
Nanuk
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This was all discussed here.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=506933


Quote:
I played around with turning them backwards and making them a giant hallow point. They were accurate and opened up huge. Don't know what the velocity was.
My experience with this 30 years ago was the total opposite bad idea.
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Old December 22, 2012, 05:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
My experience with this 30 years ago was the total opposite bad idea.
Yep - I agree - but - the idea keeps coming back over and over and over again, like one of those unkillable bad guys in a slasher movie.
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Old December 22, 2012, 07:15 AM   #13
spacecoast
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I did some experimentation recently with standard flat-ended wadcutters shot into dry catalogs (probably not realistic material, but it's all I had). The ones in front are 148 gr. .38 specials, in the back are 225 gr. .45 ACPs. Unlike some jacketed and hollowpoint bullets, none of these came apart, and some of them expanded quite nicely. The .45 at the back left is more than .75" at its widest point.

Edit - I should note that these are target-loaded wadcutters. I use either 3.0 grains of Titegroup or 2.8 gr. of Bullseye for the .38 specials. For the .45 ACP rounds I use 3.5 gr. of Bullseye.



Last edited by spacecoast; December 23, 2012 at 06:53 AM.
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Old December 22, 2012, 01:03 PM   #14
jmortimer
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Nice pictures. Very interesting. The wadcutter is a good thing.
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Old December 22, 2012, 01:23 PM   #15
anzafrank
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I wonder if anyone has tested regular ole non hardened 38 wadcutters in ballestic gel using a snubby? My way of thinking is the bullet should stay in (more shock/pain) even though others think that if it goes through you have bleeding front and rear, but the bad guy can still shoot back if you didn't hit a vital. I would think penetration at 13/14 inches would be right where you would want it unless i'm missing something.

Frank
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Old December 22, 2012, 01:28 PM   #16
jmortimer
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Yes, this is the link from above - Brass Fetcher S&W 642 J Frame 2" barrel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=iolV5KOUtsc

Also, results in this article linked above using 2" Charter Arms Pink Lady snub
http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/2...utters_200901/

You will get at least 14 inches penetration in ballistic gelatin. The Brassfetcher video show a regular Federal "soft" 148 grain wadcutter shooting right through a 12" block of 20% ballistic gelatin.

BTW - "Anza Frank" you are real close to me, "Aguanga John"

Last edited by jmortimer; December 22, 2012 at 01:35 PM.
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Old December 22, 2012, 02:16 PM   #17
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Hey John, I moved to lake Hemet 5 years ago but kept the nane. Thanks for the links!

Frank
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Old December 23, 2012, 02:06 AM   #18
TABING
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Here's another comprehensive link about wadcutters.

I carry them in my 442.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_...7dbd9-932.html
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Old December 23, 2012, 03:12 AM   #19
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Think I'll load me up some of my own! 38s and 357s both. Hard cast too!
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Old December 23, 2012, 07:25 AM   #20
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Now I know why the NRA came up with the rule that similar loads have to go all the wa

way thru the B27 paper target for score.

Soft, low velocity bullets, inexpensive buy design and by practice, are all of a sudden some kind of huge street survival secret revealed....are you pulling my leg?

148 grain hollow base semi wadcutters speeding along at 700 feet per second fired from a 6 inch barrel, the kind the PPC crowd shoots hundereds of thousands per year with, is now a big self defense discovery?

Now 800 fps round nose or semi-wadcutter hardcast bullets are a different story.
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Old December 23, 2012, 11:17 AM   #21
jmortimer
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Thanks cor the link TABING. Very interesting.

Many good points, such as:

"Our reasoning is that if the FBI considers 14 inches of gelatin penetration adequate, we'd like 20+. Being able to shoot through both shoulders of a deer and exiting is desired."
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Old December 23, 2012, 11:32 AM   #22
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Those 148gr wc would do a good job in my opinion.
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Old December 23, 2012, 11:49 AM   #23
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warningshot -

I think the point is that the wide rather sharp nose of a wadcutter by design cuts a bigger hole than a round nose, pointed SWC or non-expanding hollowpoint that all tend to slip through tissue. Soft lead expands pretty easily, as evidenced by the soft lead used in FBI load hollowpoints like the Remington R38S12. Granted, they are pushed by a +P charge.

My personal interest wadcutters for SD is based on their relatively ear-friendly nature, the fact that they cut a big hole and their lack of flash/recoil. Everything is a compromise, of course.
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Old December 23, 2012, 12:06 PM   #24
roaddog28
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For my money in a short barrel 38 special it would be Buffalo Bores 150 gr hard cast wad cutter. I have look at the information on Buffalo Bores website and I am impressed.
Howard
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Old December 23, 2012, 02:32 PM   #25
Nanuk
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One of my friends was shot with a 38 wadcutter, it hit his pelvis and stopped. He was able to shoot his attacker 6 times with a 357 magnum before said BG got off another shot. He was back to work 6 weeks later, as far as bullet wounds it was very minor. I have seen lots of people shot with 38 wadcutters because of where I worked in the 80's. I saw nowhere near 14" of penetration in living breathing people. The only thing worse than a WC at 700-800 fps is a LRN at the same velocity.
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