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Old December 6, 2012, 07:48 AM   #26
Capt Rick Hiott
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I own the ProStaff, the BuckMaster and just ordered another Nikon Force for my Taurus Raging Bull 454.......
I like them.
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Old December 6, 2012, 08:29 AM   #27
Saltydog235
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I'd get that Ziess Conquest over any Nikon product out there. Those are great scopes for the money. You can also get a Weaver Super Slam for about the same cost and it is way more than the Nikon Glass ever thought of being. Look around, there are still a few Bushnell 4200's out there that blow the Nikon products away.
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Old December 6, 2012, 08:38 AM   #28
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I think ten years ago the Nikons had a good bang for the buck. Today, not so much, the Vipers, SWFA's, Alpen's and some of the Mueller models offer superior performance at the same price.
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Old December 6, 2012, 09:31 AM   #29
bman940
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Nikon

Salty, You've made your personal message very clear. You don't like Nikon product's. Understood. You know I've tried to help you out in the past as well as do whatever I can to get information regarding Nikon product's to the guy's with question's. I certainly understand that not every scope is going to be for everyone. Forum's like this help us gather information to make an informed decision about how we want to spend our hard earned dollars. We ask question's hoping to receive relevant concise answers.
I say, take the pertinent information from this site and go someplace you can look down a few tubes, I understand a store isn't the optimal place to evaluate a scope, but at least you'll have a good idea of what the reticle looks like, eye relief and other scope features. Then, like buying a car, pick the scope that you feel will perform the best for your requirements.
As always, drop me a note if I can help provide you with any info on Nikon scopes.

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/...ugernForce.jpg
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Old December 6, 2012, 10:04 AM   #30
Saltydog235
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Bart, I offered my opinion on your products as well as others that I felt gave better performance for the same money. Nothing more, if you cannot take criticism from someone then you should consider a career change

Furthermore, if you insist on rehashing this and bringing it back in to a public forum, in June or July I issued a challenge that if you supplied me with a scope of my choosing and and it didn't break and worked in my hunting conditions during my normal application and hunting season I would A) Buy it at retail price and B) Publicly rescind any negative comments I had about Nikon. If it broke you would admit that Nikon made an inferior product to most other manufacturers. You declined the challenge and made excuses that Nikon wouldn't allow you to do that, which pretty much to me is an admission in and of itself.

I will continue to offer my opinion of Nikon's line whenever asked, just like the 10 others that have positive responses. As it stands IMHO Nikon Glass sucks. Want to change it, then take the Pepsi challenge.
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Old December 6, 2012, 10:11 AM   #31
Sgt.207
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Have had a Nikon on my Remington 7400 carbine since 1989, never had a problem. Have recently put Nikons on a bunch of my other rifles. They are clearer than my Leupold scopes.
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Old December 6, 2012, 10:21 AM   #32
bman940
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IMHO

Not interested in a battle Salty. I was just trying to get you to not condemn an entire company because you had a bad experience. Period. As for the "Pepsi challenge", No one is going to give you a scope to do as you please and hope you like it. Would a car delaer let you have a 3 month test drive and then let you decide if you want to buy the rig, I don't think so. I'm a Ford guy and my neighbor Toyota. We all have choices in how we spend our $, just nice to get informative answer's so we can make solid decision's, plain and simple. I do my best to help guy's out when they ask question's about Nikon optic's. Just trying to help out.....
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Old December 6, 2012, 10:36 AM   #33
Saltydog235
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No skin off my back Bart, I'll spend my money elsewhere. As we both say, I had a bad experience 3X over.

BTW, you aren't giving me anything if it worked it would be paid for at Retail Price, if it didn't then you'd get it back in much the same physical condition it arrived in, only the internals, which is where I had issues would be broken. Maybe it could be put back out as Refurbished.

Oh and I've had a truck that I bought in '97 and was complete lemon, Chevy ended up giving me my money back. Had to fight for it but I got it back. And I do believe that there are a few companies that have offered a basic month or two test drive along the same lines as my challenge in order to prove the worth of the product they tout, Chevy did that one too I believe.

Again, I offer my opinion from MY experiences. I spend my money elsewhere, to each his/her own. I'm a careful consumer that finds the product with the best reputation and offering the features and construction to last at a decent value. Cars/Trucks: Ford and Toyota, Outboards & Boats: Yamaha & Pioneer, Fishing Reels: Avet and Shimano, Tires: Michelin and a lot of other examples. Its what is great about having the choices we do, if I don't like something based on a bad experience, someone else has another product to take its place.

Last edited by Saltydog235; December 6, 2012 at 11:31 AM.
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Old December 6, 2012, 10:41 AM   #34
Jack O'Conner
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I've never owned a Nikkon scope but their binoculars are TOPS!

Jack
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Old December 6, 2012, 11:17 AM   #35
geetarman
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Quote:
I've never owned a Nikkon scope but their binoculars are TOPS!
Amen to that!

I have a 35 year old Nikon 7X50 that is just as clear today as when I bought it. That was one of the reasons for buying Nikon scopes for some of my rifles. My spotting scope is also a Nikon.
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Old December 6, 2012, 12:06 PM   #36
btmj
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I like both of my Nikons. I have a buckmaster 3-9X 40mm on a bolt rifle, and a Monarch African 1-4X 20mm on an AR-15.

I am completely satisfied with both.

Regarding Saltydog's "pepsi challenge"...
Quote:
I issued a challenge that if you supplied me with a scope of my choosing and and it didn't break and worked in my hunting conditions during my normal application and hunting season I would A) Buy it at retail price and B) Publicly rescind any negative comments I had about Nikon. If it broke you would admit that Nikon made an inferior product to most other manufacturers.
No manufacturer or distributor would ever agree to "...admit that they made an inferior product..." That is like asking a business to commit suicide. It's not realistic.
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Old December 6, 2012, 01:35 PM   #37
tAKticool
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bman I just wanted to say thank you for your help and your products. I am temporarily rich from having major back surgery and the WC suit settled, I got a nice chunk of change, and I started buying some toys, including a Rem 700 .308 'tactical rifle'.

I could have had whatever scope I wanted, "WITHIN REASON", of course, and I chose Nikon Monarch and I am extremely happy with my decision.

*I COULD* have bought a Trijicon AccuPoint 5-20 if I really wanted, or even a Leupold Mark 4 , but I did not, I chose the Nikon Monarch,. And again, that has made me happy, and satisfied, which IMHO is all that matters.
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Old December 6, 2012, 01:38 PM   #38
Saltydog235
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That would depend on whether or not you truly believed in what you made. They warranty those things out the door left a right, maybe there is some merit to my experiences from others out there.

Money where your mouth/claims are.
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Old December 6, 2012, 01:48 PM   #39
Polinese
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I actually just got a deal on a SWFA 10X mildot so I'll be using that and should hopefully be a while before I need a new piece of glass.
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Old December 6, 2012, 02:28 PM   #40
Saltydog235
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Give us some feedback on it when you get a chance. I've heard excellent things about those optics but never had an opportunity to put my hands on one.
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Old December 6, 2012, 03:30 PM   #41
Polinese
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Will do. I was looking for something that would be a bit more rugged. From what I gathered the SS scopes give up a little bit of clarity and added that money to the robustness of the scope which I'm ok with. I'll let ya know when I get it in hand.
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Old December 6, 2012, 07:55 PM   #42
stolivar
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I have nikons and leopolds

And I will still buy Nikon's. I can't tell the difference for the price. I have never had either fail. My father In Law can't tell the difference either.



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Old December 6, 2012, 08:07 PM   #43
pabuckslayer08
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For the prices they will never be beat. They have the best bdc an shooting software as well
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Old December 6, 2012, 11:14 PM   #44
tAKticool
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PaBuckSlayer,

First off howdy from Jersey, Trenton-area brotha... and Altoona college-born-and-bred lol.


Anyway, you hit it RIGHT ON THE HEAD, the Nikon BDC reticle and spot-on-Software make for the absolute best firing solution system Outside of being an actual US Army/USMC trained sniper w/ their mil-dot- or whatever system they use, outside of that, the Nikon SpotOn and BDC is absolutely TREMENDOUS.

You simply zero your rifle at your chosen distance (OR USE the SpotOn for calculating how to say, shoot your rifle at for example the 50 yd. line but want a 100 yd zero, etc.) AND then imput your Scope, your Caliber , your Ammo brand and exact type, And your magnification , it gives you exact distances the 4 BDC dots represent point-of-impact/aim.

So for example, my new Remington 700 AAC-SD .308 will be wearing my new Nikon Monarch 5-20x44mm BDC SF scope. I bought a single box of 20 rounds, Federal Power Shok 180gr. Soft Point .308 rounds with the rifle, simply so I wasn't going home with a brand new rifle but empty. I load up Spot On software from NikonHunting.com , and proceed to input my parameters (Personal weaponry info) etc.

It then shows me, say I zero my rifle at 100 yds, and I zoom in to 20x (Which I calculated this at), I have BDC dots to make impacts at 186 yds, 267 yds, 337 yds, 435 yds, and 520 yds @ the top of the bottom reticle stadia.

Just for kicks, if we scale back to 5x... The BDC dots represent impacting at 352 yds, 560 yds, 715 yds, 905 yds, and 1056 yds @ the top of the bottom reticle stadia.


IMHO this is absolutely PRICELESS and invaluable to someone with a firm prep background, someone concerned about SHTF, urban unrest, government declaring martial law, financial collapse, civil war, etc; any of that stuff. For someone like me , a Scrappy Suburban Sniper lol , this is PRICELESS.. having these types of calculations done for me GREATLY increases my chance of effective fire in an emergency situation. Will I EVER have to fire my rifle in anger/in defense? Probably NOT ever. *IF* I do? Having run a few SpotOn calculations and recording the data for use could mean the difference between life and death, hitting or missing, saving the day/land/house/family or losing.
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Old December 7, 2012, 09:01 AM   #45
bhoges017
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These topics get too heated. Everyone has an opinion as to what optics is the "best". Its very difficult to test scopes without proper equipment so most of what people say isn't based on too many facts. I have optics from many brands (Nightforce , Zeiss Conquest/ Darivari, Swarovski, Nikon, Leupold, Steiner) I feel the playing field has become level over the years. Optic quality has improved in leaps and bounds. I myself have never had a scope fail on me. I hunt, plink, and shoot competition as well. As far as Nikons my Ar Carbine that I compete with has a Nikon M223 1-4x on it. I guess its been about 2years now. I shoot anywhere from 7yds to 200yds at my matches. I have yet to had the scope loose zero or give me any issues. Im old school and I check my zero a lot and get made fun of. Its always dead on. Keep in mind at my shoots I place in the top two places everything. I wouldn't run an optic that would ruin my chances. I crank the turrets and throw my rifle around a lot. Ive shot out to 800yds with my Nikons and there work great. Nikon seems to take a beating on a lot of forums.
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Old December 7, 2012, 09:35 AM   #46
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I agree that there isn't a lot of difference optically between most of the better brands of riflescopes these days. Where the main differences lie is in the features and weight. If I was wanting a lightweight scope Nikon wouldn't be my first choice as their 3-9 Buckmaster comes in about 30% heavier than a Leupold VX2 3-9 and almost 50% heavier than the Ultralight model. To me there is a lot more to compare than price and power range. The top two choices for lightweight optics IMO is Swarovski and Leupold, and the Swaro's are out of my price range.

To a lot of people weight isn't a real consideration and for my varmint/target rifles it isn't as well. Most of my non hunting rifles use other optics than Leupold. The majority of my rifles that get hunted on a regular basis wear Leupold VX-II or better, and the are worth every penny I spent on them.
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Old December 7, 2012, 09:57 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltydog235
Give us some feedback on it when you get a chance. I've heard excellent things about those optics but never had an opportunity to put my hands on one.
I'm very happy with my SS 10X42, Lot of scope for the money, 30mm tube, side focus, target turrets, long eye relief and large eye box.

SWFA has two models of the Super Sniper 10X42, first is the basic 10X42 and the second is the 10X42HD

The HD is 9oz heavier from the metal gear set in the adjustment mechanism. The HD has slightly less eye relief but it's more than enough for large caliber, just under 4".

The Super Sniper has a great following at the Snipers Hide.
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Old December 7, 2012, 10:08 AM   #48
Saltydog235
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My issue were never with the optical quality of the scopes nor the warranty but instead the internals. A practically new condition scope with a detached reticle which was repaired/warrantied out only to get it back and have erector/turrets fail on me. Both issues while on hunts.

It's about price to some people, its about confidence in my gear to me. I have zero confidence in the brand. You can break anything if you try to and from time to time things do fail, its unavoidable if you do something long enough. However when you have the same product fail twice in a relatively short time, that should make anyone want to move to something different.

If you have good luck with them fantastic, glad for you. Some people don't care for Bushnell, I happen to think the Elite line is fantastic if you get to the 4200 and above. Some don't care for Weaver but the Super Slams I have are absolutely great glass.

Just glad I have the freedom to choose what I want, the opportunity to have some many manufacturers and the free speech to offer my opinions.
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Old December 7, 2012, 04:06 PM   #49
bman940
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choosing

Salty, On that we agree, the ability to make the choices we want to because we live in the USA ! Let's hope we always have those freedom's.
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Old December 7, 2012, 04:12 PM   #50
bman940
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Scope leveler

Great suggestion to the guy's Metal. I have one and love it! Being left handed and cock-eyed, according to anyone who looks at a scope I "eyeball", it is a great and easy to use tool. Good youtube vids on it as well if I recall correctly. Easy to find for less then $50 too....Christmas present...?
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