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Old December 5, 2012, 09:27 AM   #26
drail
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The issue here is not that these loads will blow up a gun. The issue is severe gas cutting of the forcing cone. Ever watch someone use a gas cutting torch? Steel will stand up to it for a little while. The torch always wins. Read Kuhnhausen's Ruger DA revolver shop manual. He has many photographs of barrels ruined by staedy diets of 110-125 gr. "hot" loads. Unfortunately I didn't read his book until after I ruined a barrel on a Ruger GP 100. Stick with heavier slower loads unless you don't mind paying the cost of replacing your gun or its barrel.
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Old December 5, 2012, 07:26 PM   #27
robert1811
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Thanks for the responses

Lol guys I simply want to shoot the most powerful load I can with the gun I have. I am also thinking about getting a Ruger for this reason but if I do that then Yes I would just spend the extra cash and get a 44 mag
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Old December 5, 2012, 07:36 PM   #28
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Drail

Thank you very much for your reponse, very educational. Flame cutting is the reason why I didnt buy a polymer revolver like an LCR.
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Old December 5, 2012, 07:41 PM   #29
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SuperVel if you can find them!!!

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Old December 5, 2012, 10:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Who makes the HOTTEST 357 magnum rounds
I do! Seriously though, just getting the hottest load may not be the best route, accuracy is just as important IMO. But I do have some hand loads that are more powerful than some commercial SD loads, at least with a chrony and identical bullet weight.

If you want a recommendation I would say the Buffalo Bore is about the stiffest load I ever bought commercially.

I have a Ruger GP-100 with a 6" heavy under barrel that I absolutely love to shoot MAX 158 grain loads out of.
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Old December 5, 2012, 10:45 PM   #31
oldgranpa
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Try some Federal American Eagle 158gr .357mag. Gets 1500fps with my Ruger Blackhawk 6 1/2" barrel. Fed Fusion same thing with a little hollow point.
That's as hot as I want to go.
og
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Old December 6, 2012, 04:33 AM   #32
robert1811
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Thank you guys for all this information. I have done some more research on this and have found that flame cutting appears with just about any magnum load. So now that I am aware of this and aware that my own gun has some flaame cutting already (being used for 10 years) that I will shoot only a few rounds. My .357 in 6 inch will never see any carry duty I just wanted to " shoot the fire out of it" Thank you guys I have researched much more on the flame cutting issue than before.

Although I still find it curious as to why a heavier bullet is a better combatant against this than a lighter bullet

Maybe because of the bullet itself isn't as long (flame cutting due to the forcing cone issue) as a 158 grain bullet thus [roducing more muzzle flash, sound and recoil (from what i've read)

Which is why im curoious, but at the same time makes sense.

Overthinking.. Go figure Hah!
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Old December 6, 2012, 04:40 AM   #33
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I think i'm going to go to a .44 mag ammo question thread and say how foolish it is to use a .44 mag for protection when the .500 S&W exists! A .357 with 180 gr buffalo bore ammo has A LOT of power. Enough for black bear and anything smaller. I was once charged by a bear in my back yard and all I had was my .357 with 180 gr BB and I fired off a shot at his feet. The flame it threw and the sound alone turned him tail and he ran off. Animals aren't invincible. I wouldn't take a .357 to Africa or Alaska but a guy that can get off 3 or 4 solid shots with a .357 is a lot more effective than a guy who can only place one .44 round because of muzzle rise.
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Old December 6, 2012, 12:25 PM   #34
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A good gunsmith can re-cut your forcing cone, giving you a better barrel for hot loads.
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Old December 6, 2012, 12:44 PM   #35
mavracer
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Quote:
Although I still find it curious as to why a heavier bullet is a better combatant against this than a lighter bullet
heavier bullets give more resistance to pressure so less powder is required to build pressure behind a heavier bullet. less powder = less cutting.
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Old December 7, 2012, 12:30 AM   #36
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Try some Federal American Eagle 158gr .357mag. Gets 1500fps with my Ruger Blackhawk 6 1/2" barrel. Fed Fusion same thing with a little hollow point.
That's as hot as I want to go.
I think you need to check the accuracy of your chrony. Factory spacs for the American Eagle 158 gr 357 Magnum is 1240 fps. Some manufacturers are pretty close to their specs, many are actually lower, and some of the hot loads from the boutique ammo loaders actually read a bit higher. That's a bit higher. I doubt that any common brand will produce velocity of 260 fps over their claimed numbers!
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Old December 7, 2012, 01:05 AM   #37
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Hot 357

Buffalo Bore lists their 180gr hard cast at 1400 fps and their 158gr at 1475 fps.Fiocchi at one time offered a 158 at something like 1400 or 1450 fps but I don't see it listed anymore.I know it has been awhile since I have seen it,because everyone else loads their 158gr to 1235 to 1250 fps and this was quite a bit hotter.Lawyers I guess.....
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Old December 7, 2012, 11:03 AM   #38
oldgranpa
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hey cheapshooter, try some Fed AE with your chrony and see what you get. barrel length makes a difference. others I've read get close to 1500fps also in longer barrels. shoot some with your chrony before judging me.
og
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Old December 7, 2012, 06:16 PM   #39
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Not judging you at all. Just not used to factory velocity being exceeded in real life. Most often they use a fixed chamber test barrel of a length longer, or at least the longest commonly seen. Their specs are usually over what is commonly found in actual use. sorta like the +P advertising hype used for rounds that have no +P SAAMI ratings.
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Old December 7, 2012, 06:54 PM   #40
JTMcC
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Shotgun 693 says, and others agree:

Why do you want the very hottest .357?



Well maybe it's just for fun. maybe there is a real need. Who cares?
If someone wants to load the hottest round possible in his .357 or 45-70 or old 30-06, that's what he wants to do. He probably understands that there are 44 mag and 500 mag hand helds out there. The 45-70 shooter probably understands that he can buy a big bore Lott and there are a multitude of .30 cal. super lazer ultramags.
But entertainment, and need, exist where they exist so I feel for the guy wanting to do the most with what he's got even if it's just for a good time.
People put heads and a cam and a lot of other things in their small block Chevy while knowing that there are 600" big blocks to be had. There are still old hard heads hot rodding flathead 1936 Ford motors. Just a matter of taste.

I'm just glad he's shooting, I won't personally get hung up on his load. We, as shooters have much larger and more dangerous enemies than some cat wanting to hotrod the caliber he owns, regardless if it's a .17 or a .357 0r a .577 nitro express.

Don't trample on other peoples fun. Run what ya got and enjoy it, at whatever level of energy makes you happy, that's my take.

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Old December 7, 2012, 11:08 PM   #41
oldgranpa
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just some follow up on my comments about Fed AE. Chart attached with my chrony readings. Note the drop in fps with the short barrel snubby.
og
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Revolver velocities.JPG (67.2 KB, 11 views)
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Old December 8, 2012, 07:30 AM   #42
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Quote:
heavier bullets give more resistance to pressure so less powder is required to build pressure behind a heavier bullet. less powder = less cutting.
So if you stick to 180 - 200 grain hot loads you should be ok?
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Old December 8, 2012, 08:15 AM   #43
mavracer
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So if you stick to 180 - 200 grain hot loads you should be ok?
They'll be better but given enough rounds they'll eventually erode the forcing cone.
It's erosion, it takes place a little at a time and it's accumulative. K frame Smiths don't have as much material and are affected by much less erosion, A GP100 is much thicker around the forcing cone and takes a lot more rounds, but it'll still happen. I heard one report of a GP cracking he claimed something like 20,000 rounds of 125gr bullets with a max load of 296.
Nothing man made is indestructable.
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Old December 8, 2012, 09:05 AM   #44
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HSM builds Bear Loads. I couldn't find a bear to test them on, but they are seriously spunky. Big hardcast Boolits make pretty good medicine for the thick critters. I still consider .357 bear minimum. The next step up, .41 magnum, has much more gusto.
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Old December 8, 2012, 09:46 AM   #45
jmr40
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Depends on how you define hottest. If I wanted my 357 "loaded for bear" as they used to say I'd use these.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=337

A 200 gr hard cast @ 1200 fps from a 4" barrel of 1315 fps from a 6" barrel.


There are some other companies that offer loads with lighter bullets that are faster then DT, but they offer the best speeds with heavier bullets.
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Old December 8, 2012, 10:55 AM   #46
roaddog28
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Quote:
The issue here is not that these loads will blow up a gun. The issue is severe gas cutting of the forcing cone. Ever watch someone use a gas cutting torch? Steel will stand up to it for a little while. The torch always wins. Read Kuhnhausen's Ruger DA revolver shop manual. He has many photographs of barrels ruined by staedy diets of 110-125 gr. "hot" loads. Unfortunately I didn't read his book until after I ruined a barrel on a Ruger GP 100. Stick with heavier slower loads unless you don't mind paying the cost of replacing your gun or its barrel.
Drail hits the nail on target. Here is a picture of a forcing cone of a GP100 after firing 100 rounds of 125gr "frame throwers" a week for a year. Note the erosion of the forcing cone. The revolver was sent back to Ruger for a barrel replacement.
Stick with the heavier gr and slower moving rounds. A 1300 FPS is plenty fast enough.
Howard

Last edited by roaddog28; December 8, 2012 at 01:20 PM.
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Old December 8, 2012, 11:18 AM   #47
Hal
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Quote:
Here is a picture of a forcing cone of a GP100 after firing 100 rounds of 125gr "frame throwers" for a year.
Can you be a bit more specific on the total rounds it took for that to happen?
I'm reading that as a total of 100 rounds fired over a one year period.
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Old December 8, 2012, 01:20 PM   #48
roaddog28
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Sorry Hal,
Its a 100 rounds a week for a year. Forgot to put that in.
Thanks,
Howard
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Old December 8, 2012, 02:58 PM   #49
Hal
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A bit over 5000 rounds makes more sense.
That's a pretty fair number of rounds.
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Old December 8, 2012, 03:21 PM   #50
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To answer the original question, I think Corbon makes a .357 Magnum load for the Freedom Arms model 83 only. It's loaded to 60000+ PSI and will likely grenade other guns (although a Ruger Red Hawk might can handle it -- but I'd be afraid to try, .357 Red Hawks are hard to come by and I'd hate to ruin one)

Search for ".353 Casull"
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