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Old October 30, 2012, 01:01 PM   #1
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Reloading rookie in need of some help.

I finally reloaded my first batch of 45 ACP and already im having problems.
1) I cant get my bullets to sear strsight on the brass, what am I doing wrong?
2) I triede to fire some of my reload, the first round fire jist fine but whe the slide comes back to the firing position it wont close compleatly, my fist thought was my rounds ware too long so I made them a bit shorter still having that seme proble.Can it be that my bullets beeing slightly croocked is causing this problem? Please help anny tip or advice is welcome and greatly appresiated.
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Old October 30, 2012, 01:15 PM   #2
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Give us a LOT more information. Tell us the gun (we are guessing it's a 1911!) and tell us the bullet, the powder, the charge weight, the equipment you are using, etc etc. We'll see what we can trouble shoot.

You almost cannot include too much information.
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Old October 30, 2012, 01:41 PM   #3
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First either proof read your posts, or use a spell checker! No worries, I could decipher what you attempted to write.

Like sevens said, we need a lot more info. Only then can we track down what you're doing wrong.
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Old October 30, 2012, 01:42 PM   #4
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Are the bullets misaligned before or after they are inserted in the case by the bullet seating die?
The problem as to the loaded rounds not going into battery might be due to the bottom of the brass not being fully resized, due to short stroking of the press or the die not screwed down low enough in the press.
Or you maybe shooting a gun without a fully supporting barrel causing an excessive bulging of the bottom of the brass.
If so, a different type of resizing die will be needed to remove the bulge.
But if the bullets are cocked in the case after loading, then there's a definitely serious problem.
Like maybe an incorrect seating die.
A picture of the loaded rounds would be a big help.

And Please, your spelling*****!!
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Old October 30, 2012, 01:53 PM   #5
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Welcome to the forum.

As Sevens and Snuffy said, more information would help a lot and some effort to write more clearly would help.

Some general things:

Standard seating dies can produce a little bullet tilt, and the bulge that mirrors the bullet base on the side of the brass can be uneven as a result. The general cure is to use a Lyman M style expander that makes a little step you can set the bullet into so it stays upright. This assumes your equipment will accommodate a different brand expander die (some progressive arrangements will not).



Also, do you have a caliper? Measure the outside diameter of your finished rounds right at the case mouth. It should be between 0.467" and 0.473". If it is bigger, you probably are not crimping hard enough. Sometimes brass with overly thick neck walls (usually a foreign headstamp) or bullets that are too wide can affect this. Some guns are pickier than others and don't want over 0.470".

If you are using a bullet with anything but a round nose, some guns need the chamber mouth throated. Some kinds of round nose bullets are hemispherical rather than elliptical, like military ball, and may need to be seated even shorter than you expect. Anyway, say what the bullet is or post a photo and also post how long the bullet is.
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Old November 1, 2012, 02:30 AM   #6
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You need to flare or bell the mouth a bit more. then use a Factory Crimp die. In this case a TAMPER crimp and that should solve your issues. the M die is nice but not needed.
I load a lot of 45 and thses two things are common issues.
Go slow until you get a consistent feel for each step and watch what your press is doing.
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Old November 1, 2012, 10:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Dozier
In this case a TAMPER crimp and that should solve your issues.
Virtually no .45 Auto die sets come with roll crimp shoulders anymore. They are pretty much all taper crimps now, so I'm sure that's what he's using already. More mouth belling could help, but it also causes case mouths to split sooner if you do too much.

I have to disagree on the M die. I fought the uneven bulge problem relentlessly on my Dillon Square Deal after I first got it. No amount of belling made any difference except with bevel base bullets, and those don't shoot as accurately as plain flat base for me. Dillon, of course, only makes taper crimp dies for auto pistol pistol dies, so that's what I was using.

I wound up grinding an M profile into my Dillon Square Deal's expander/powder measure operating tube. That expander profile stopped the problem almost completely (slight unevenness can occasionally occur, but it's never all on one side anymore) and my .45 Auto bullseye gun LSWC groups shrank about 20% as a result.

I can't say it mattered much to jacketed bullets, though. They tend to be tough enough to straighten out entering the throat at pistol pressures. But lead is sensitive to any degree of bullet misalignment as the bullets tend to swage into the throat at the angle they begin the firing event with. That leads to imbalance due to the resulting mass asymmetry out beyond the muzzle.
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Old November 3, 2012, 04:30 AM   #8
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Unclenick:
You provided some real nice information, even with out much information to go on.
Thanks, I found that interesting.

I am going to go on a M die buying binge one of these days.

Back to 1911 fanatic's issue as guessed by me. He may also be having seating depth issues.
I inferred from his post, problems going into battery.

When I first started loading my own cast bullets in my 45. I used the LEE 230 gr rn bullets.
Those things are fatties. I was seating them at the same OAL as other 230 gr rn bullets and they would not feed.
I resorted to pulling the barrel out of my 1911 and using it as a gauge.
I would seat the bullet a little at a time and see if it would fit the chamber.
Turns out you really need to seat those suckers in there pretty far.

I ended up selling that mold off and getting a Lyman 220 gr rn mold.
Has a different tip. Has more margin for seating depth. They shoot good too.
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Old November 3, 2012, 06:30 AM   #9
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Hmm, are you expanding enough that you can "stick" the base of the bullet in the case? If so, is it straight going into the seater? If not, why? If still crooked, call the die maker.

Next, I think your crimp is in question. What is the case diameter right at the end of the case? Should be .469 - .471, if memory serves me.

Last, do your loaded rounds drop freely in the barrel and freely drop out just by turning it over? This is the plunk test.
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Old November 3, 2012, 03:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Hmm, are you expanding enough that you can "stick" the base of the bullet in the case? If so, is it straight going into the seater? If not, why? If still crooked, call the die maker.
Anybody that thinks you can align a bullet straight on top of a case with your fingers is foolish. Fooling yourself and others. The main thing a seating die does is align the bullet before it starts seating it. The better the fit and finish of the seating die is, the better the seating punch fits the bullet, the better the final alignment will be. The case and bullet have to be held in good alignment with each other in order for the bullet to seat straight.

With all the variance of bullet nose shapes, outside diameter, it's a miracle that they get seated straight. Then consider the brass case. It should have enough flair to accommodate the bullet without shaving metal from the sides. So that prevents the die from having a tight accurate hold on that case.

Then we expect to pay way less than 50 bucks for a loading die set. Manufacturing tolerances, TIGHT tolerances cost money. Usually in the form of better machines and better inspections. If we didn't mind a hundred bucks for a set of dies, or around 50 bucks just for a seater, we could get better handgun ammo, by that I mean 0 run-out and no crooked bullet/bulges in the cases.

Precision rifle seaters already exist. Redding and Forster sell them and they work.

Which brought up a question for myself, which resulted in finding that Redding does the same thing for handgun seaters.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/734...uto-rim-45-gap
From the midway description;
"Tighter manufacturing tolerances have been made possible due to the details of the patented seating stem system. The bullet guide to seating stem fit is so precise that the seating stem can actually be demonstrated to "float" on a column of air. The seating stem is precision ground to exactly match bullet diameter. Alignment and accuracy are enhanced by the cartridge case and bullet being completely supported and aligned in a close fitting, precision ground sleeve before bullet seating begins. The micrometer is calibrated in 0.001" increments for precise seating depth and is infinitely adjustable (without clicks). Also has a "zero set" feature that allows you to zero the micrometer to your rifle or favorite seating depth. Shellholder sold separately. "

Still no response by the OP. Did I scare you off with my criticism? Get over it, we're not all gifted with the ability to write! If it weren't for the spell checker built into the firefox system, my posts would look worse than yours!
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Old November 3, 2012, 07:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
If it weren't for the spell checker built into the firefox system, my posts would look worse than yours!
I'm with you on that one. My spelling is terrible i love my spell checker.
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Old November 4, 2012, 07:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Anybody that thinks you can align a bullet straight on top of a case with your fingers is foolish. Fooling yourself and others. The main thing a seating die does is align the bullet before it starts seating it. The better the fit and finish of the seating die is, the better the seating punch fits the bullet, the better the final alignment will be. The case and bullet have to be held in good alignment with each other in order for the bullet to seat straight.
I think we are in agreement here, but to add some detail. . .

The purpose of the "stick" is that is how I know the case is belled enough that when pushed squarely, I know the bullet will not hang up on the case mouth going in.

The purpose of aligning it straight is to get it straight enough to go in the seater die and also to not hang up on the case rim.

Also, related to your bullet seater comments, I agree that Forster makes a good seater. Hornady is similar, but slightly looser I think Hornady is using the case for alignment where Forster is using the press accuracy to align the case to the bullet which by the nature of the seater is aligned to the die/press. I've made good ammo with each, but Forster is my go to for best quality ammo!

Frankly, I'm not sure non-bullseye handguns benefit from going the Redding route, but I could be wrong.
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Old November 4, 2012, 09:39 AM   #13
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I've bought Hornady seater dies for straight walled pistol cases. They have the sliding alignment sleeve and help start the bullets into cases straighter than regular dies which often rely on the bullet sitting perfectly straight in the case mouth bell before raising it into the die. Works much better and almost eliminates the slightly cocked bullets which leaves a slight bulge in the case wall on one side or the other. You can buy the Hornady seater dies separately. Makes it easier as the sliding sleeve takes the bullet from your fingers and aligns it with the case.
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Old November 4, 2012, 10:23 AM   #14
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Those Hornady dies are no better than any other brand. The fit of that sleeve is so bad it really does nothing better than any other brand. Then after you use it for awhile, the guts dump out on the downstroke because that cheesy spring clip gives up the fight to keep everything inside the die. Then you're dead-in-the-water until Hornady ships you another one.

Hornady bought out the Pacific tool & die company. The Pacific dies worked OK, but they attempted to cover lousy machining by chrome plating everything. Hornady eliminated that, but the machining didn't improve much.

Their recent improvements have been to copy lee's idea of a sliding decapper stem held by a collet. But they failed to do it right, you couldn't clamp it tight enough to hold it. So it got re-designed with the "zip spindle" which is sort-of threaded.

The older rifle FL sizer dies had the neck expander ball GLUED to the stem! It's a good thing their service is good, you're going to need it!
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Last edited by snuffy; November 4, 2012 at 11:46 PM.
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Old November 4, 2012, 10:37 AM   #15
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We get that you have your favorite brands there snuff, however your brand preference has nothing to do with this thread or the OP's problems. Lots of folks are very accomplished reloaders using a variety of equipment.

Back on topic, OP what OAL are you seating your rounds to and can you finger place them in the casing and have them stay put before seating?

Also what press, dies, bullets, cases and powder are you using? Did you follow the directions when setting up your dies before reloading?

Last edited by HKGuns; November 4, 2012 at 10:44 AM.
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Old November 4, 2012, 02:33 PM   #16
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Um, yeah maybe I just got 4 sets of bad Hornady dies!

What we have here is a drive-by-posting. One post, no replies. We're all shooting in the dark trying to help out, no more info from the OP.
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Old November 4, 2012, 05:18 PM   #17
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Agree. Looks like he is gone.
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Old November 5, 2012, 01:02 AM   #18
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He may be gone but your posts have a lot of good information. He may have stayed away because of the spell check comment. I rely a lot on spell check due to my c.r.s. Hope he comes back with the info.
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Old November 6, 2012, 12:45 PM   #19
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I didn't see anybody suggest a case check gage.

A case check gage is used to ensure the cases are properly sized and that the bullet is seated sufficiently deep as to (probably) feed and chamber correctly.

They make a great reference point to ensure the ammo will fit the chamber without having to shoot to prove it.

One can also use the disassembled barrel as a check gage but this only proves the ammo will fit that barrel. Another barrel might have a tighter chamber.
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Old November 6, 2012, 01:22 PM   #20
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ok, since the OP is gone, can I highjack part of this.

I too have my first batch of (9mm) not .45 and ran them through recently - probably around 100 rounds as I wanted to make sure they even worked.

Using brass laying around from my Dad, 147gr lead bullets, 3.7 g powder (i think from memory) and Dillon 600 press.

So he has been ill lately, so I completed and shot the batch. All worked and were pretty good after initial setting had the bullet too short.

Before going to range, we tried to place in barrel of his Glock and a few got stuck. Anyway, I used my Taurus pt-99 and everything ran perfectly and were actually very accurate.

Anyway, my question is about the buldge you showed in above diagram. My bullets look to have a bulge that follows the bullet. I should get a picture - I might have one left that the primer was upside down.
I tried to back off the crimping for the last few, but the buldge was still there.
They all fired fine, It just looks wierd.
What is causing this? What do I need to adjust on the press to have the case just straight like a factory round?

Thanks and I hope the OP checks back because there is a lot of knowledge here.
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Old November 6, 2012, 03:09 PM   #21
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If the bullet is bulging out the brass a wee bit but you are still taking out the bell mouth needed to seat the bullet in the crimping step and the round fits the chamber, it's ok to use.

It's a leftover from when the sizing step which squeezed the brass back down after firing and squeezed it narrower than original unfired factory brass.

You may also see that there is a slight case bulge near the case head that can't be taken out with resizing if the brass has been fired in a Glock. That's the "Glock bulge." (you can look that up.)

A case gage or barrel check is vital if you are loading for perfect functioning such as for match ammo. I use the bulged ones in a different gun with a larger chamber for practice.

Others may have a different answer for you.
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Old November 6, 2012, 04:43 PM   #22
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I'm loading 9 mm using .356 diameter lead round nose bullets. They chamber and fire in my sr9c . When I send them through my cartrage gauge most don't drop even . Im thinking its the bulge and the .356 diameter of the lead round. Any thoughts on what I can do to improve this? I guess one way may be going to a plated or FMJ but I have a thousand of these bullets and I'm gonna use them. Also , those of you using lead bullets. I noticed that some of these lead bullets have a seam on them . The seam is right down the center where I guess 2 mold halves met. Normal? Or bad fit and finish? I assume this affects accuracy considerably. I'm going to post this lead bullet question on a new thread.

Last edited by brigond; November 6, 2012 at 07:31 PM.
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Old November 6, 2012, 11:41 PM   #23
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You didnt give us much info but if its a 1911, Id start by trying a new mag.
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Old November 7, 2012, 12:27 AM   #24
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In cases like this, given that they were before Firing Line or at least before I found it, the shortest distance to a solution was to ask an experienced reloader and possibly get him to take you under his wing. Easy way - hang around an indoor range and BS with the owners and the guys who are there because they don't want to go home.

If you're humble and sincere and willing to pay attention, there are an unlimited number of shooters and reloaders who will be willing to help you out. There may be other sports with such bragging rights, but I don't know what they are.
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Old November 8, 2012, 02:03 PM   #25
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To pile on that fine thought-- if you want to spot the handloaders, look for guys who pull ammo from plastic flip-top ammo boxes, and rarely open up a cardboard box of ammo.
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