The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old August 9, 2004, 04:53 AM   #1
VaughnT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 30, 2000
Location: Western SC
Posts: 663
Freud and Firearms?

I've often seen Siggie Freud quoted as saying something to the affect that the fear of firearms was a sign of "sexual immaturity", but I can't figure out what he means from that single, out-of-context quote. Can anyone elaborate?

I understand that fearing a tool, which a firearm is, would indicate a general lack of maturity because it's not logical to fear an inanimate object. Nobody fears a hammer or a nail, do they?

But, why does he bring sex into the equation? Am I misinterpreting his use of the word "sexual"?

Anyhow, it's been bugging me for some time. If anyone could offer some insight (is there a doctor in the house?), I would be most appreciative.
__________________
When Reason Fails.....
VaughnT is offline  
Old August 9, 2004, 12:23 PM   #2
raz-0
Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2002
Posts: 97
freud decided pretty much everything was about sex. But then again I believe he had a nasty coke habit too, so you might want to take some of his ideas with a grain of salt.

As far as sexual maturity, he basically proposed humans as sexual beings from birth, and that along with the body, ones sexuality matures as well. Except many people get stuck at a developmental stage of sexuality rather than

Go to

http://oldsci.eiu.edu/psychology/Spencer/Freud.html

and search for psychosexual.

As a side note, almost all of his theories are regarded as wrong these days.
raz-0 is offline  
Old August 9, 2004, 02:47 PM   #3
m16a2223
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 1999
Location: Alabama
Posts: 128
VaughnT, Nobody understands what Freud was saying......Freud didnt even understand.
m16a2223 is offline  
Old August 9, 2004, 04:48 PM   #4
Dusty Miller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2004
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 262
There's a very good reason why the words "Freud" and "fraud" look so much alike!!
Dusty Miller is offline  
Old August 9, 2004, 05:08 PM   #5
fyrestarter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2004
Posts: 323
Well, a few of us actually do understand Freud.

In General Introduction to Psychoanalysis , Freud wrote, "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

Freud is specifically making reference to the male phallus with his use of the word "weapon", as his Tenth Lecture on the subject of dreams labels swords, sabers, pistols and rifles as symbols of the male gentalia. A fear of a weapon, in a dream, mind you, simply suggests a neurosis towards the male phallus. For instance, if a female were to have a dream in which a man with a gun startled her, it would point towards an innate fear of sex, and perhaps lead to the discovery of said fear.

The quote has nothing to do with firearms. It is merely a comment on dreams and symbolism.
__________________
"Get yourself a Glock and lose that nickel-plated sissy pistol."
--Sam Gerard

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
--Thomas Jefferson
fyrestarter is offline  
Old August 9, 2004, 07:05 PM   #6
VaughnT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 30, 2000
Location: Western SC
Posts: 663
Fyrestarter, thanks for shedding some light on that. All this time, I was thinking that he was speaking literally and never considered that it might be a metaphor. Kinda sucks that he didn't find something actually wrong with people that actually fear guns, in and of themselves.

Did Jung cover this territory any?

While I agree with Freud that humans do things for reasons of procreation (not plain sexual pleasure), I think Freud missed a big bit by not including the other two factors in human behavior, namely Feeding and Fighting.

FYI, Desmond Morris, I believe, postulated that the Rule of the Three "F's" is what motivated all human behavior just like it does in other mammals. The three are intertwined and often hard to separate or identify, but they are there.

Thanks again.
__________________
When Reason Fails.....
VaughnT is offline  
Old August 9, 2004, 07:26 PM   #7
fyrestarter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2004
Posts: 323
Quote:
Kinda sucks that he didn't find something actually wrong with people that actually fear guns, in and of themselves
Well, Vaughn, I suppose in actuality he did. A dream is just a symbolic manifestation of a neurosis, which in turn is a fear based on a traumatic incident, or perceived incident.

A conscious fear of a gun represents a subconcious fear of that which a gun symbolizes, which is the male phallus. Any person who fears a gun in real life makes a unconscious reference to their subconscious fear of, well, penis.

According to Freud, therefore, a man who fears a gun, subconsciously questions his own sexuality, fearing he might be a homosexual. A woman who fears a gun is fearing penetration, or rape. In either case, the neurosis sometimes manifests itself as a phobia -- an irrational fear of the object symbolizing the fear and not the fear itself. Other times, neuroses cause people to compensate by battling for control over the object. For instance, pyromaniacs become obsessed with firefighters, simply because they live in awe of those who can control the object they fear.

A strictly Freudian analysis of an anti-gun advocate, therefore, is that, if male, he wishes to get rid of guns simply because he fears that he is a homosexual; if female, it is because she lives in terror of being controlled by a man. Pretty much explains Rosie O'Donnell, doesn't it?
__________________
"Get yourself a Glock and lose that nickel-plated sissy pistol."
--Sam Gerard

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
--Thomas Jefferson
fyrestarter is offline  
Old August 26, 2004, 08:15 AM   #8
mec
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2001
Posts: 1,530
Playboy used freudian symbolism to make fun of shooters saying that the gun made up for their little, short, impotent wee-wees. They hadn't read the opening chapters of " Introduction to P..A..." ( or much of anything else for that matter.) Freud was a member of the Austrian Militia/Army and guns were a commonplace for him. He was also a resounding quackeroo although it took the smart set about a century to figure that out.

Freud had a developmental scheduel he called "Polymorphous Perversity" that other psychoanalist liked to call the "Psycho-sexual stages of development." The early primary femal psychoanalist, Karen Hornay thought they were a bunch of crap-she resented the 'Penis Envy' thing and came up with something not so sexual- "Psycho Social Stages of Development"

G.C. Jung started his own school of psychology and though everybody had inborn memories he called " Archetypes." He was heavy into sexual symbolism too and came up with a nasty called the "Vagina Dentata"- the inborn fear that a female organ will grow teeth and bite off your privy member. Thus, irrational fear of Lorena Bobbett could be a sign of sexual immaturity.

The psychoanalytical school of quackery has largely been replaced by newer and equally phantasmagoric crocks of snake oil.
mec is offline  
Old December 16, 2012, 05:14 PM   #9
JackVigdor
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2012
Posts: 1
Fyrestarter, you wrote that 'In General Introduction to Psychoanalysis , Freud wrote, "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"'

I actually just downloaded a PD version of that book and no where in it does Freud say that. Freud does imply that a fear off weapons in dreams is a sign of a fear of adult sexuality.

The idiot who was trying to make a joke about how Freud and fraud sound alike and that therefore must mean something, is an idiot. Freud is not all that hard to understand. Many people have read him and understand him. I am a believer in private gun ownership, so my criticism here is not against owning guns, but is a criticism of some of the stupid people who have posted in this thread. I do believe you must have good impulse control and be responsible to own a gun. Too bad some of you own weapons.

By the way, MEC, analytic theory is far from quackery. There is plenty of current research which validates much of Freud's work.

Mec, you are like someone who criticizes a gun he has never used.
JackVigdor is offline  
Old December 16, 2012, 05:28 PM   #10
KMAX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,069
Lighten up, Jack. No need to get nasty.
__________________
This is my gun. There are many like her, but this one is mine.

I'm not old. I'm CLASSIC!
KMAX is offline  
Old December 16, 2012, 05:44 PM   #11
Sparks1957
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 4, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,471
Is Jack aware that he's responding to the post that is almost 9 years old?
Sparks1957 is offline  
Old December 16, 2012, 06:16 PM   #12
geetarman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,773
According to some. . .guns are phallic symbols. For that matter so are guitars.

I play bass also
__________________
Geetarman

Carpe Cerveza
geetarman is offline  
Old December 16, 2012, 06:29 PM   #13
KMAX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,069
Don't start in on trombones.
__________________
This is my gun. There are many like her, but this one is mine.

I'm not old. I'm CLASSIC!
KMAX is offline  
Old December 16, 2012, 06:46 PM   #14
12GaugeShuggoth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 534
Quote:
The psychoanalytical school of quackery has largely been replaced by newer and equally phantasmagoric crocks of snake oil.
.......freaking awesome. Also, zombie thread
__________________
---Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.---

---Enlightenment is the ability to take infinite pains---
MOLON LABE
12GaugeShuggoth is offline  
Old December 16, 2012, 06:49 PM   #15
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,791
I see nothing here worthy of resurrecting an 8 year old thread.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old December 16, 2012, 06:49 PM   #16
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,733
Sorry - the Freud path is not one we will go down. Psychoanalysis and weapons - bah. The quote may not be real also.

Closed for necromancy.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10969 seconds with 9 queries