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Old December 5, 2012, 07:10 AM   #1
bfskinnerpunk
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22lr ARs as reliable as typical 22lr rifles?

I see plenty of AR type rifles that shoot 22lr rounds.

I'm wondering if these rifles handle the 22lr round as well as rifles that were designed for the 22. For example, can a good 22 AR shoot as accurately and reliably as the common Ruger 10/22?

What are the downsides of a 22 AR compared to a traditional 22 lr rifle?

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Old December 5, 2012, 08:59 AM   #2
BPowderkeg
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i will say that anyone planing on buying a dedicated .22LR in an AR style rifle/carbine, steer clear of the Colt, it is pure junk in my OPINION, stick with the S&W M&P AR-15/22 OR a good dedicated upper, like the Tacsol M4/22, there are probably others that are good to go, but the above mentioned .22's are the only ones i have any personal experience with.
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Old December 5, 2012, 10:03 AM   #3
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My CMMG WASP .22LR dedicated AR upper (on a PSA lower) has been incredibly reliable on a wide variety of ammo. In several thousand rounds, I can only recall one malfunction (a failure to fire due to bad bulk ammo).

In fact, it has been more reliable than my Ruger 10/22. It is also MUCH more accurate out-of-the-box.

Here is a link to a report of my experience with my CMMG dedicated .22LR AR upper:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=668410

Last edited by Fishbed77; December 5, 2012 at 10:11 AM.
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Old December 5, 2012, 10:40 AM   #4
MarkCO
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Accuracy and reliability should really be discussed separately.

A complete .22 AR, or an upper, or a conversion is not going to have a match or Bentz chamber so they will not be as accurate as say a Kidd or Fedderson. Then you have ammo...the match ammo is optimized for the match chambers so you don't get the same benefits in an AR.

As for reliability, go get your map! The S&W AR-15/22 has been proven to be very reliable. The Mossbergs I know of have not bobbled much, but they are newer and I have not seen as many of them. The uppers, the Nordic is far and away the best of the bunch, but they have trouble keeping up with demand. The TacSol and CMMG complete uppers would be 2nd and 3rd and worthy of consideration...but I'll just stop at only listing three.

I have never owned a "stock" 10/22. All of mine are ground up builds and all are extremely reliable. My Marlin 7000 and Volquartsen auto rifles are the best in the accuracy department with match ammo. The Tacsol barrel on the custom 10/22s is a tad behind, but still more accurate than the AR15-22 variants.

For my purpose of rimfire matches used to hone speed rifle skills for 3Gun, the Nordic upper is also the best bet because I have it on my backup lower with the same stock, grip, controls and trigger as my match rifle.

Just DON'T get a bolt conversion. The accuracy and reliability are not there in general and they become a frustration.

There are no downsides, just differences that may make one better or worse for you.
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Old December 5, 2012, 10:53 AM   #5
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I have the CMMG 'India' 22 conversion kit for my Daniel Defense DDM4 V2.

It has been 100% and sccuracy is very good as well. I prefer this method because I get to keep the same trigger/optics/rail/stock/etc as my primary rifle... and can practice for much cheaper. Blow through 1 mag of 5.56 after shooting as much .22 as I want to blow out the gas tube and such...

Works great. I don't know if mine is so reliable because I got the complete kit or not... if I had it to do over again, I would probably buy the cheaper, basic conversion kit... but I'm very happy with mine.
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Old December 5, 2012, 04:13 PM   #6
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Most of the dedicated 22 AR's are not reliable, due to plastic lipped magazines, that wear out easily; unless you buy CMMG's new metal lipped magazines --- which I've had not tried yet. The safety manipulation is much faster on the AR types...than say --- the Ruger 10-22.
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Old December 5, 2012, 04:34 PM   #7
mukibetser
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MY M&P 15-22 performance center model has been 100% accurate since day one, with minimal cleaning, and dead on accurate, almost boringly so. If you want a dedicated AR style .22 I can't imagine why you'd go with anything else.
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Old December 5, 2012, 04:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Most of the dedicated 22 AR's are not reliable, due to plastic lipped magazines, that wear out easily
Yeah 10K rounds on a Black dog mag in the Nordic upper...still running 100% like a scalded ape. A LOT of the top 3Gun pros use these and they are utterly reliable.
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Old December 5, 2012, 05:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
i will say that anyone planing on buying a dedicated .22LR in an AR style rifle/carbine, steer clear of the Colt, it is pure junk in my OPINION, stick with the S&W M&P AR-15/22 OR a good dedicated upper, like the Tacsol M4/22, there are probably others that are good to go, but the above mentioned .22's are the only ones i have any personal experience with.
You hear that a lot from Colt bashers but I've found my Colt M4 .22lr and my buddy's S&W M&P15-22 are about the same in accuracy and reliability as long as you use the ammo they like. Both rifles love 36gr Federal and WW value packs from Walmart. Both puke on Remington Golden Bullet.

Both are fine rifles and each has advantages and disadvantages. One negative for both, my Marlin 60s easily shoot as well yet at a fraction of the initial rifle cost.
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Old December 5, 2012, 05:12 PM   #10
CharlieDeltaJuliet
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I have a CMMG .22 AR, it is great. There is only one brand magazine that gives me any issues and that is the ProMag. I have put numerous rounds through the standard CMMG magazine and four after market magazines. I do prefer the Black Dog mags with metal lips. But honestly this rifle is a dream to shoot, and throw a suppressor on it, and the thing is whisper quiet. Mine has a 14.5" exposed barrel(1.6" inside the upper, to bypass NFA laws). I would recommend it to anyone. I also owned a S&W M&P15-22, it was a great rifle too. I only sold it to buy the CMMG.
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Old December 5, 2012, 05:13 PM   #11
Fishbed77
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Quote:
Most of the dedicated 22 AR's are not reliable, due to plastic lipped magazines, that wear out easily; unless you buy CMMG's new metal lipped magazines --- which I've had not tried yet.
I've never had a single reliability issue with either the plastic-lipped or stainless steel-lipped Black Dog Machine magazines in my CMMG dedicated .22LR upper. The concensus is that either Black Dog or CMMG mags are good-to-go.

Quote:
MY M&P 15-22 performance center model has been 100% accurate since day one, with minimal cleaning, and dead on accurate, almost boringly so. If you want a dedicated AR style .22 I can't imagine why you'd go with anything else.
If you want an actual AR-15 chamered in .22LR (with forged receivers, correct weight/feel, and parts compatibility) instead of a plastic AR-15 replica shooting .22LR, a dedicated AR upper/full rifle is the way to go.

That said, the S&W M&P15-22 is a fine rifle, but not everyone's cup of tea.

Last edited by Fishbed77; December 5, 2012 at 05:20 PM.
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Old December 5, 2012, 05:21 PM   #12
Erno86
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I bought 9 Black Dog 25 round 22lr mags, with plastic lips. The combination of these magazines, plus the approx. round usage of 50,000 rounds {+- 10,000 rounds}, has worn out the feed lips on the magazines; where I get jams and malfunctions on the last 5 rounds.
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Old December 5, 2012, 05:24 PM   #13
TMD
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I bought my wife a S&W M&P 15/22 about three years ago. Only about 10k rounds through it and haven't had a problem with it yet.
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Old December 5, 2012, 05:54 PM   #14
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I've never seen nor shot a .22 rimfire, pistol or rifle, that was as reliable as the average autoloading centerfire pistol. 99% reliability is about all I would expect in a rimfire auto.
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Old December 5, 2012, 06:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
I've never seen nor shot a .22 rimfire, pistol or rifle, that was as reliable as the average autoloading centerfire pistol. 99% reliability is about all I would expect in a rimfire auto.
You need a Nordic then.
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Old December 5, 2012, 07:54 PM   #16
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I took 2 AR15-22 types and a STG44 22 to the range today. Shot each one about 100 rounds, and I defy anyone to tell which group came from which gun. All three were very accurate. I had one failure to feed in all that shooting, and it was the very first shot attempted. Most likely a magazine issue from a full mag. Keep them clear and use quality ammunition, and you will be very satisfied with your choice regardless of which one you select.
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Old December 5, 2012, 09:29 PM   #17
Marquezj16
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Quote:
I'm wondering if these rifles handle the 22lr round as well as rifles that were designed for the 22. For example, can a good 22 AR shoot as accurately and reliably as the common Ruger 10/22?
Shooting Industry Academy of Excellence Rifle of the Year

The new M&P15-22 is a dedicated M&P15-format rifle designed and built as a true .22 LR semi-auto from the ground up, with all the standard operating features and accessory specifications of a modern-version centerfire M&P15 rifle.

It's a rifle built for the .22. It shoots as accurately and reliably as a 10/22.
I'd pick a M&P 15-22 over those other rifles anyday.
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Old December 6, 2012, 10:29 AM   #18
BPowderkeg
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Mr. Quentin2 sez..,

Quote:
You hear that a lot from Colt bashers but I've found my Colt M4 .22lr and my buddy's S&W M&P15-22 are about the same in accuracy and reliability as long as you use the ammo they like.


accuracy and reliability are not my concern as much as the general design, e.g., loosening the flash hider to clean it ?? come on man !! that is pure stupidity in design.


why i do NOT like the Colt/Umarex...!

Quote:
Verify gun is ON SAFE.

- Insert EMPTY magazine and retract charging handle so that bolt assembly remains in open position.

- Remove magazine.

- Visually inspect to verify that no ammo remains anywhere in the rifle.

- Loosen compensator only two revolutions

- Remove rear receiver pin so that upper receiver pivots upward

- Thoroughly clean the bolt assembly area with a brush and cloth (aerosol gun scrubber works great) to remove powder residue and debris.

- Clean the barrel with bore solvent utilizing a flexible cleaning rod inserted trough breech end of barrel (where bullet seats).

NOTE: cleaning the barrel from the muzzle end requires a bore brush that does NOT exceed 1-inch in the length. using a brush
exceeding this length will result in the brush being lodged in the breech area.


this is just one of my concerns for a quality rifle. the Colt/Umarex is NOT a quality rifle in design or function.........., it is JUNK !! once more just my OPINION
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Old December 6, 2012, 12:15 PM   #19
RickB
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Quote:
I took 2 AR15-22 types and a STG44 22 to the range today. Shot each one about 100 rounds, and I defy anyone to tell which group came from which gun. All three were very accurate. I had one failure to feed in all that shooting, and it was the very first shot attempted. Most likely a magazine issue from a full mag. Keep them clear and use quality ammunition, and you will be very satisfied with your choice regardless of which one you select.
I put 150 rounds through my StG44, the first time to the range, and while it shot the last two mags - 50 rounds - without issue, it probably malfunctioned 20 times in the first 100 rounds; failure to extract, failure to eject, failure to feed; once, all three on a single shot!
My Colt .22 conversion (1911) went 150 without a problem at the same time, but that gun will usually malf once or twice every 100 rounds, as does my 10/22.
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