The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 1, 2012, 09:54 PM   #1
Jerry45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2000
Location: Metairie, Louisiana
Posts: 890
Someone care to explain... primers/box color/etc.

I've been buying Federal LR "Match Primers" in a "blue" box. I was looking on line and found LR "Gold Medal" Match Primers. They are in a "red box". What's the difference? Then I see "Small Pistol" in a blue box. Not match just regular primers. Is Federal deliberately trying to be confusing? I thought regular primers were in red boxes Match in blue and what in the heck is the difference in Match and Gold Medal Match?
__________________
Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!
Jerry45 is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 09:57 PM   #2
arizona98tj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 937
Is it correct to assume you have checked the Federal web site to see if they explain the differences?
__________________
stu-offroad.com
Largest Jeep TJ project site on the web!
(now with guns)
arizona98tj is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 10:47 PM   #3
Jerry45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2000
Location: Metairie, Louisiana
Posts: 890
That would be correct. All Federal lists is Gold Medal in red and black box.
__________________
Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!
Jerry45 is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 10:48 PM   #4
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,786
What makes you believe the (any) Federal Blue box contains match-grade primers?
mehavey is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 10:58 PM   #5
Jerry45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2000
Location: Metairie, Louisiana
Posts: 890
Because the 4 blue boxes, I have on the shelf, 2 LR and 2 SR say Federal Match Primers. I just bought 2 last week.
__________________
Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!

Last edited by Jerry45; December 1, 2012 at 11:08 PM.
Jerry45 is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 01:14 AM   #6
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,786
What is the primer number on the (Blue) box?

210, or GM210?

.
mehavey is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 01:45 AM   #7
Jerry45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2000
Location: Metairie, Louisiana
Posts: 890
I'll check later and get back to you. Have to go in the shop to load some 45/70 a little later.
__________________
Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!
Jerry45 is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 07:25 AM   #8
steve4102
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,135
The match primer are numbered with an "M" after. For example, the large rifle Match is 210M while the large rifle standard is just 210.
My Federal primers in "Blue" boxes are not match primers, they are 210, 215 and 100. My Match primers are in Gold and Red boxes marked 210M and 215M.
steve4102 is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 09:17 AM   #9
Misssissippi Dave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2009
Posts: 1,405
As I understand it the match primers are made by their more experienced people. Champion primers are possibly not quite as consistant. The difference is not much when it comes to pistol loads.

It is my opinion, you would have to weigh each powder load and the bullets would need to be weighed as well to keep things consistant enough to notice the difference between match and regular primers. I am assuming you are already using the same brand cases trimmed to the same lenght. Some bench rest shooters might see the difference. For hunting and general range use I don't see the need to use match primers.

The color the box is can always vary since some companies like doing this for what ever reason. Gold Medal Federal primer is what you will see on the box for their match primers.
Misssissippi Dave is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 10:32 AM   #10
emcon5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 1999
Location: High Desert NV
Posts: 1,563
The formulation is the same, but the Gold Medal have tighter quality control tolerances. I confirmed this with Federal a couple years ago, when GM primers were impossible to find, and I didn't want to have to start over with load recipes.
emcon5 is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 12:38 PM   #11
Jerry45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2000
Location: Metairie, Louisiana
Posts: 890
First, thanks to all for the replies. I'm a curious sort and this had me puzzled as it didn't seem to have any rhyme or reason. So I asked.

The LR and SM that I have, in BLUE boxes, are GM210M GM205M. Box says FEDERAL LARGE RIFLE MATCH PRIMERS then GM210M. Small Rifle same order of wording. I'm presuming the GM is for Gold Metal M for Match.

What started this quandary is... I purchased the first batch from a well know on-line distributor and the second from Cabala's locally. Cabala's was $5.00 more than the base price of the on line distributor but I didn't have to pay shipping or HASMAT so they were actually less expensive. All were/are in Blue boxes.

Last night I was looking for Varget powder. Looks like almost everyone is out of 8 lb. cans. Found some and it was a couple of dollars cheaper than where I normally buy so I decided to look at their primer prices. Almost $10.00 a 1,000 cheaper. But! They were in RED boxes that say Gold Metal Match hence the WTH.

It appears the primers ARE the same just packaged differently. I hate it when they do that!!!!!

Dave, for my 308 I weigh every bullet, trim every case to length and weigh every powder charge to ##.00 grain. If it's 0.1 over or under it goes back in the dispenser. Best 100 yd. 5 shot group so far measures 0.198 center to center. All calibers are checked for length, necks and primer pockets cleaned every time they are loaded. I'm not that particular with the 45/70. At 60 + gr. I'll let it go 0.1 over or under but not 0.2 Sounds like a lot of work but it's fun. It's not a job it's an adventure.
__________________
Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!

Last edited by Jerry45; December 2, 2012 at 12:48 PM.
Jerry45 is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 01:03 PM   #12
Misssissippi Dave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2009
Posts: 1,405
As I mentioned thing are different when you are going for extreme accuracy with rifle rounds. There is a science and almost magic to producing good ammo for bench rest applications. The more things you can make the same the more consistant the results are.

These days I'm more into pistol loads. I make a lot for semi-auto pistols. I still do take a bit more time to get things as close as I can when I load .357 mag ammo. Yesterday someone tried 3 rounds of factory followed by 3 rounds of my reloads through my pistol. They wanted to know just what I loaded mine with because the group was better than factory ammo. It makes good range ammo for me. The cost to load is less than factory ammo too.

I still need to find a good load for the .38 specials. I have some that are OK but not great. The search goes on.
Misssissippi Dave is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 02:09 PM   #13
Jerry45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2000
Location: Metairie, Louisiana
Posts: 890
At one time I was shooting Bowling pins, plates and combat matches with my 1911s .45 ACP. Had three different loads but wasn't worried about group size. Loaded on my Dillon 550 and + - 0.2 was close enough. Actually the Dillon is pretty consistent. I still load "bulk" .223 for the AR and my 45/70 on the Dillon. All other rifle calibers are loaded on a single stage RCBS.

Many many years ago I was loading .38 & .357 for Bulls-eye. Back then Bulls Eye was the go to powder.

Love my 1911s but never got into playing with powder for groups. It was always about function and speed. W 231 works well for me.
__________________
Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!
Jerry45 is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 02:44 PM   #14
jag2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 378
I think Jerry45 is a little more than just curious.
jag2 is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 03:41 PM   #15
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,786
Quote:
Originally Posted by OP/Jerry45
The LR and SM that I have, in BLUE boxes, are GM210M GM205M. Box says FEDERAL LARGE RIFLE MATCH PRIMERS then GM210M. Small Rifle same order of wording. I'm presuming the GM is for Gold Metal M for Match.
OK... you got me with a puzzle. I've never seen Federal Match in anything but the distinctive Red boxes.

As to differences between "Match" and "Ordinary," it's simply in the acceptance tolerances of the primer compound. In reality, the differences are very little (and sometimes the "ordinary" are more consistent in effect than the "match.")

Go figure......
mehavey is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 04:20 PM   #16
hk33ka1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2010
Posts: 275
Could they be old stock primers with different packaging? Winchester changes their primer and ammo packages every 10-15 years or so.
hk33ka1 is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 04:40 PM   #17
Jerry45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2000
Location: Metairie, Louisiana
Posts: 890
Could be! But Cable's was out 2 weeks ago.and when they restocked the boxes were still blue.

Jag2, I may be crazy but I'm not colorblind.
__________________
Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!
Jerry45 is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 12:36 AM   #18
mxjunky78
Member
 
Join Date: August 2, 2012
Posts: 45
FWIW, my standard small pistol primers are in a blue box. Just to add to the quandary a bit.
mxjunky78 is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 11:53 AM   #19
wncchester
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2002
Posts: 2,832
"Someone care to explain... primers/box color/etc."

Sounds to me like Federal did a run of boxes in different colors. It's probably better to read the labels than to match box colors.
wncchester is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 01:22 PM   #20
Jerry45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2000
Location: Metairie, Louisiana
Posts: 890
Roger that. ^

I found it odd that the ?SP primers and rifle match primers were both in blue boxes. Last week they only had 4 boxes of LR Match (I bought one) and 2 SR Match. As I said earlier they had run out of LR Match and restocked. Just left a little while ago and now all the LR and SM Match are in red (kind of rust colored boxes. Price is still the same. I'm guessing Federal/their box co. had a color mix-up but put the right info and primers together. Anyway it looks like things are back to ?normal since I can't find a LR or SP box of "Match" primers in blue boxes anywhere on the internet. Or perhaps I really have lost my mind.
__________________
Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!
Jerry45 is offline  
Old December 5, 2012, 10:46 PM   #21
10 Spot Terminator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2008
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 346
How Strange on the box color diemma. My older Gold Medal Match primers came in a predominantly white box with a small dark blue corner slash ( just checked ) and my newer ones are in a red box. They moved the reference word "match" around a bit between the boxes as did the word Gold Medal. On the white box it is written into the primer description and on the red box it is stamped on the partial picture of a shotgun hull. Go figger that !!! A shotgun hull on a rifle primer box. The only federal primers I ever saw in a lite blue box during the reloading famine were for shotguns. I had my eyes peeled 24/7 in the 1/2 dozen retail outlets between the town I lived in and where I worked reading ALL primer lables closely as I was pretty near clear out . Curious if on those lite blue boxes if all the primer data is on just the ends of the trays ? It may be Federal was short on more than just primers when they went back into production for the publiic and one " lite blue sleeve" covered all and just the tray ends were different
10 Spot Terminator is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10766 seconds with 9 queries