The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 9, 2012, 02:47 PM   #1
Da_swed
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2010
Posts: 27
Just bought a Rogers & spencer

Hi i Just bought a Rogers & spencer it has the S/N 3140 and markigs "B" all over

it its in relly good condition mechanically and relly nice barrel and stuff but the

blueing is gone



bad pic camera on my phone is not the best and it was abit dark

Last edited by Da_swed; November 9, 2012 at 03:36 PM.
Da_swed is offline  
Old November 9, 2012, 03:46 PM   #2
Craig010
Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2012
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 30
Looks like it's solid. Hope you got a good deal on it. ~Craig
Craig010 is offline  
Old November 9, 2012, 03:51 PM   #3
Da_swed
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2010
Posts: 27
it is verry solid thats why i bought it in the first place also im gonna use it for shooting
Da_swed is offline  
Old November 9, 2012, 04:11 PM   #4
warbirdlover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2009
Location: central Wisconsin
Posts: 2,324
Brother has the Italian copy of it and it's the nicest black powder civil war era pistol I've shot.
warbirdlover is offline  
Old November 9, 2012, 07:34 PM   #5
Fingers McGee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,843
Nice find Da_swed
__________________
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
Fingers McGee is offline  
Old November 9, 2012, 07:49 PM   #6
brazosdave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2012
Location: Copperas Cove, TX
Posts: 287
that is one sweet pistol!
__________________
"I'm your huckleberry, it's just my game"
brazosdave is offline  
Old November 9, 2012, 08:02 PM   #7
sltm1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 299
Sweet gun!! Mine is ser # 1449, no blue and it was rode hard and put away wet, still shoots well though. Wish it could talk!!
sltm1 is offline  
Old November 10, 2012, 01:05 AM   #8
Da_swed
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2010
Posts: 27
Quote:
Sweet gun!! Mine is ser # 1449, no blue and it was rode hard and put away wet, still shoots well though.
Wish it could talk!!
How many grains and what bullet size do u use?
Da_swed is offline  
Old November 10, 2012, 06:32 AM   #9
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 4,562
User friendly

I have a replica R and S and I like it. Shoots well and the design in easy to clean.

Not a bad looking revolver as well.

You are to be congratulated on your find.
__________________
Doc

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old November 10, 2012, 11:50 AM   #10
Da_swed
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2010
Posts: 27
so can anyone here tell me what loads and what bullets fits the rogers and spencer ?
Da_swed is offline  
Old November 10, 2012, 12:26 PM   #11
sltm1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 299
Da Swede, it'll hold up to 30+ g, but I'd start with 20 (3f), cause accuracy falls off with too much powder. I use a 454 rb and a lube pill under the ball above the powder, also #11 caps w/ a little "squeeze to them to get them slightly out of round.
sltm1 is offline  
Old November 10, 2012, 12:49 PM   #12
Da_swed
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2010
Posts: 27
would .452 228gr conicals work whit this gun ? dound some on a site or are they gonna be to small ?
Da_swed is offline  
Old November 14, 2012, 01:07 PM   #13
Da_swed
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2010
Posts: 27
how much power dose an old .44 caliber cap and ball revolver like this have

if u would compare it too any of the modern calibers ?
Da_swed is offline  
Old November 14, 2012, 07:19 PM   #14
arcticap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2005
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 2,973
Here's figures for a Remington with a 5.5 inch barrel. Pyrodex P is usually more potent than Goex black powder, and Swiss black powder can deliver slightly more power than Pyrodex P. The longer R&S barrel can deliver slightly more velocity too.

Gun Barrel Powder by Volume Bullet Weight Average Velocity Calculated Energy Calculated Momentum
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 28 grains 3F Pyrodex 138 grain, .451 ball 593 ft/s 108 ft-lbs 11.69 ft-s
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 32 grains 3F Pyrodex 138 grain, .451 ball 700 ft/s 150 ft-lbs 13.80 ft-s
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 32 grains 3F Pyrodex 140 grain, .454 ball 850 ft/s 224 ft-lbs 17.00 ft-s
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 35 grains 3F Pyrodex 138 grain, .451 ball 875 ft/s 234 ft-lbs 17.25 ft-s
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 35 grains 3F Pyrodex 140 grain, .454 ball 945 ft/s 277 ft-lbs 18.90 ft-s
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 35 grains 3F Pyrodex 143 grain, .457 ball 960 ft/s 292 ft-lbs 19.61 ft-s
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 37 grains 3F Pyrodex 138 grain, .451 ball 950 ft/s 276 ft-lbs 18.72 ft-s
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 37 grains 3F Pyrodex 143 grain, .457 ball 960 ft/s 292 ft-lbs 19.61 ft-s
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 42 grains 3F Pyrodex 143 grain, .457 ball 1019 ft/s 329 ft-lbs 20.81 ft-s
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 46 grains 3F Pyrodex 143 grain, .457 ball 1050 ft/s 350 ft-lbs 21.45 ft-s
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 37 grains 3F GEOX Black Powder 140 grain, .454 ball 898 ft/s 250 ft-lbs 17.96 ft-s
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 40 grains 3F GEOX Black Powder 140 grain, .454 ball 949 ft/s 280 ft-lbs 18.98 ft-s
.44 Remington, 1858 5.5 inch 42 grains 3F GEOX Black Powder 140 grain, .454 ball 964 ft/s 289 ft-lbs 19.28 ft-s

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...=674419&page=2

Here's some one shot stop percentages:

Cap and Ball Ballistics
By Ed Sanow
Handguns February 1998
Cap and Ball Wound Ballistics

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ighlight=sanow

Calibre
Firearm
Bullet
FFFg
Velocity
Energy
1 Shot Stop

.31 Pocket
Baby Dragoon
46gr RB
11gr
821 fps
69 ft lb
30%

.36 Navy
Colt 1851 Navy
70gr RB
22gr
1038 fps
189 ft lb
59%

.44 Army
1861 New Army
141gr RB
35gr
935 fps
274 ft lb
75%

.44 Walker
1847 Walker
141gr RB
60gr
1287 fps
519 ft lb
87%

.44 Calibre RB Ballistics

0.44
1860 Sheriff
141gr RB
30gr
756 fps
179 ft lb
59%

0.44
1861 New Army
141gr RB
35gr
935 fps
274 ft lb
75%

0.44
Ruger Old Army
141gr RB
40gr
1031 fps
333 ft lb
79%

0.44
1848 Dragoon
141gr RB
50gr
1181 fps
437 ft lb
85%

0.44
1847 Walker
141gr RB
60gr
1287 fps
519 ft lb
87%

Cap and Ball versus Modern Cartridges

.31 Pocket
Baby Dragoon
46gr RB
11gr
821 fps
69 ft lb
30%

.22LR
Revolver
37gr LHP
FL
975 fps
78 ft lb
29%

.36 Navy
Colt 1851 Navy
70gr RB
22gr
1038 fps
189 ft lb
59%

9mm S
Semi Auto Pistol
88gr JHP
FL
1000 fps
189 ft lb
59%

.44 Army
New Army
141gr RB
35gr
935 fps
274 ft lb
75%

.44 Spl
Revolver
200gr LHP
FL
810 fps
292 ft lb
73%

.44 Walker
Walker 1847
141gr RB
60gr
1287 fps
519 ft lb
87%

.41 Mag
Revolver
175gr JHP
FL
1250 fps
608 ft lb
89%


Posted by Voodoochile

Ballistics:
Chronograph was placed 10' in front of the muzzle to get these results.

Bullet = .457 143 grain Cast Round Ball.
Powder = Goex FFFg black powder.
Primer = Remington #11
5-1/2” Barrel Average Ballistics.
40gr. Volume = 916 fps. 266 ft. Lbs. 5.5” group @ 20 yards & Violent.
35gr. Volume = 838 fps. 222 ft. Lbs. OK punch with 4” grouping @ 20 yards.
30gr. Volume = 754 fps. 180 ft. Lbs. little recoil with 2.5” grouping @ 20 yards.
25gr. Volume = 667 fps. 141 ft. Lbs. almost not there but with having to use a wad my groups opened up to 3.2" @ 20 yards.

Bullet = .456 220 grain Cast Lee conical bullet.
Powder = Goex FFFg black powder.
Primer = Remington #11
5-1/2” Barrel Average Ballistics.
35gr. Volume = 745 fps. 270 ft. lbs. No room, Violent, & 5” grouping @ 20 yards.
30gr. Volume = 672 fps. 220 ft. lbs. Recoil OK, Decent group of 3” @ 20 yards.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ighlight=lever

Last edited by arcticap; November 14, 2012 at 07:25 PM.
arcticap is offline  
Old November 16, 2012, 07:06 PM   #15
Da_swed
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2010
Posts: 27


just got some bullets 457, fff blackpowder and 11#caps and bullet lube

just a few moore things needed like a powder measure and clening stuff

and a flask maybe ?
Da_swed is offline  
Old November 17, 2012, 11:53 AM   #16
Da_swed
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2010
Posts: 27
update just got home whent too the range too test fire the gun

one word wow it was relly relly fun first time ever fireing a bp revolver

but i do need too get a powder measure someone recomended too use

an emty 38. special but i dint have one i did use an emty 9x19 too fill up whit

powder i have no idea how many grains that was! and when i was finished i did

find a 357. magnum shell can i use that ?and dose anyone know how many

grains of bp that holds ?
Da_swed is offline  
Old November 17, 2012, 12:49 PM   #17
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 1,342
.357 mag shell holds 27 grains.
Beagle333 is offline  
Old November 17, 2012, 01:32 PM   #18
Da_swed
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2010
Posts: 27
ty so much for the info Beagle333 27 grains sonds like a good load i think t

the r&s holds 30+ like someone here said i wonder how much the 9x19 luger

holds that i used today
Da_swed is offline  
Old November 17, 2012, 01:51 PM   #19
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 1,342
The 9×19mm Parabellum holds 13 grains, according to Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum
Beagle333 is offline  
Old November 17, 2012, 02:16 PM   #20
Da_swed
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2010
Posts: 27
so that would mean shoot some relly weak loads today and i was relly

nervous the whole time and towmorow il be shooting much hoter loads if im

gona use the 357.shell ihope everything will work ok nervous just thinking

about it i
Da_swed is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 05:27 PM   #21
Russell Start
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2012
Location: Liverpool, England.
Posts: 2
flask

i shoot an R&S by Euroarms and use triple seven is very easy to clean and I use 15grns you must get a flask to mesure or you wont get consistancy I allso use pre lubed wads and make up powder loads in cigaretts papers wraped around a pencil and filled from a flask putting the lot in the cylinder it splits as you load it and fires great,its just a timesaver during competitions that you may like to try,don't overdo the loads it wasts powder and damages the gun

Last edited by Russell Start; November 29, 2012 at 05:35 PM.
Russell Start is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 04:33 AM   #22
Da_swed
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2010
Posts: 27
thanx for the info,i will try it as soon as i can, but atm my sight is broken so

i orderd a new one for my original
roger and spencer from peterdyson in the uk

http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog...revolvers.html

im also thinking about trying the powderloads in cigarett papper
shuld save me alot of time



Quote:
shoot an R&S by Euroarms and use triple seven is very easy to clean and I use 15grns you must get a flask to mesure or you wont get consistancy I allso use pre lubed wads and make up powder loads in cigaretts

papers wraped around a pencil and filled from a flask putting the lot in the cylinder it splits as you load it and fires great,its just a timesaver during competitions that you may like to try,don't overdo the loads it wasts powder and damages the gun
Da_swed is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 08:12 AM   #23
Da_swed
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2010
Posts: 27



Da_swed is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 11:52 PM   #24
Gatofeo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 1, 2004
Location: Remote Utah desert
Posts: 222
I would NOT use Hodgdon 777 in that fine, old original revolver.
It's tricky stuff, subject to pressure jumps when compressed too heavily.

Hodgdon itself notes in its section on loading black powder cartridges:

Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100inch. Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property.

Now, while the above specifies cartridges, a wise muzzleloading shooter will also heed this advice though he doesn't use brass cartridges. Clearly, Hodgdon is warning that too much compression can cause problems.
Here's what Hodgdon has to say about using 777 in percussion guns:

Select the proper charge from the loads listed in this brochure. Set powder measure as indicated. While holding the firearm vertically, slowly pour the measured charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex into the barrel. Seat the projectile firmly against the powder . Make sure that there is no airspace between the powder and the projectile.

Because your revolver is original, and its metallurgy was not as precisely controlled as today's guns, I'd avoid 777 altogether.
Use Pyrodex P or FFFG black powder.
__________________
"And lo, did I see an ugly cat. Smoke. Brimstone. Holes in parchment. And this ugly cat was much amused." --- The Prophesies of Gatodamus (1503 - 1566)
Gatofeo is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 12:09 PM   #25
sltm1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 299
Gatofeo, good call, I think Swiss also has higher pressures so I'd stay away from that too.
Da_Swede, 2f bp will work as well if that's all you can find.
sltm1 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10567 seconds with 9 queries