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Old December 1, 2012, 05:54 PM   #26
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardworker View Post
Let's put this in perspective.

You hire a landscaping crew to work on your yard. You have no real idea who these people are or their qualifications/familiarity with a gun. Your family spends time in the yard while this work is going on. Do you really want these random people working for you toting guns around your yard drawing on anyone they deem a threat? If not, congratulations, now you see Autozone's point of view.
You can't be serious.

"Drawing on anyone they deem a threat".

Where does this happen?

Lets at least try to live in the real world.
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Old December 1, 2012, 06:00 PM   #27
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^X2 Many of us, including myself, carry most of the time (if not all). I doubt any "Drawing on anyone they deem a threat". Brian, you stated it well.

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Old December 1, 2012, 06:59 PM   #28
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A few questions:

A private enterprise has the right to create and enforce it's own policies, to be sure......but -

1-Does Autozone also forbid it's customers for conceal carrying?

2-When a business posts a "No Firearms" sign...are they not assuming responsible for the safety of everyone in said business?

2-If you are in an establishment which forbids employees and/or customers from having CCWs, and a crime occurs which results in harm (or worse) to an employees and/or customers....does one not have the right to sue said establishment for infringing on the individual's constitutional right to self protection, despite company policy?
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Old December 1, 2012, 07:04 PM   #29
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1)No, at least none I've ever seen.

2)No.

3)You can sue for anything you want, but you'll lose.
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Old December 1, 2012, 11:18 PM   #30
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Quote:
2-If you are in an establishment which forbids employees and/or customers from having CCWs, and a crime occurs which results in harm (or worse) to an employees and/or customers....does one not have the right to sue said establishment for infringing on the individual's constitutional right to self protection, despite company policy?
As Brian stated:
Quote:
3)You can sue for anything you want, but you'll lose.
...

...and the reason you would loose is when you as an employee found out your company had a 'no gun policy', you chose to stay.
Too, as a patron to a business, you also voluntarily entered said business walking past the 'No Gun' sign.
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Old December 1, 2012, 11:28 PM   #31
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The biggest reason you'd lose is because gun owners are not a Protected Class.

Legally, it's no different than a "No Shirts, No Shoes, No Service" sign.
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Old December 1, 2012, 11:59 PM   #32
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Alright, point taken. So allow me to take this onto a different tangent - how many here would be more or less willing to patronize a business displaying a sign such as this:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/r...oCCWlawful.jpg

Are there any legal ramifications to a private enterprise allowing employees/patrons to exercise their constitutional 2nd Ad. rights as opposed to a private enterprise which does not?
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Old December 2, 2012, 12:03 AM   #33
Brian Pfleuger
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I don't go places with No Guns signs.

I had a thread a while back about Chuckie Cheese's.

I don't go there, unless I'm conned into it.

I still believe its their right, private property rights are essential to freedom, but it's also our right to grant them their wish, so to speak.

I have a gun on me. If they don't want the gun, they don't want me. Wish granted.

I'm not sure a Guns Are Good sign is really a plus though. Maybe.
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Old December 2, 2012, 12:10 AM   #34
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Quote:
how many here would be more or less willing to patronize a business displaying a sign such as this:
There was a bank robbed recently with a sign of that gist. The bank president foiled a robbery. The bank is posted gun friendly.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...baebc1539.html
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Old December 2, 2012, 12:30 AM   #35
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Quote:
...and the reason you would loose is when you as an employee found out your company had a 'no gun policy', you chose to stay.
I don't know if you've noticed, but the job market hasn't exactly been brimming with lucrative opportunities for most the last couple of years. Not everyone can turn down or leave a job because of a policy banning firearms.

Given the choice of sticking to one's principals and putting food on the table, I can't blame the employee for choosing the latter.

(There's a real parallel to the "well, move to a free state LOL" responses I see when folks post about the gun laws in places like California and New York.)
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Old December 2, 2012, 06:38 AM   #36
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Quote:
...and the reason you would loose is when you as an employee found out your company had a 'no gun policy', you chose to stay.
Quote:
I don't know if you've noticed, but the job market hasn't exactly been brimming with lucrative opportunities for most the last couple of years. Not everyone can turn down or leave a job because of a policy banning firearms.
Tom, with respect, I completely understand about the job market and it was not my intent to condemn anyone for having to work for an employer having 'no gun' policies. Apologies if it sounded that way.

My response was specific to(with emphasis on emboldened part) the question asked of Famas...

...
Quote:
2-If you are in an establishment which forbids employees and/or customers from having CCWs, and a crime occurs which results in harm (or worse) to an employees and/or customers....does one not have the right to sue said establishment for infringing on the individual's constitutional right to self protection, despite company policy?


For clarification, you can sue your employer or a place of business in which your a patron for infringing on your constitutional rights for having a 'no gun' policy but you will not win cause even though you have to provide for your family or need to purchase certain things to live, you are still willfully going into these places whether as an employee or patron full knowing of the policy. Regardless of our needs we have for entering this place of employment/business or our thoughts/feelings of said establishments policies, the business is entitled to make their own policy.
If I choose to work for a company, while I'm there, I may not agree with all the company policies but have accepted them and am expected to conform to policies set forth by that company.

Far as my own thoughts on purchasing/shopping at a business with 'no gun' signs..
... I don't.

For commodity purchases and other personal business, my money doesn't go to establishments with the no gun signs.

If I need a certain item and I go to a store that carries that item and see the no gun sign at the door, it may be a little inconvenient, but well worth my time to find the item elsewhere. And taking the time to go in the anti-gun establishment and politely explaining to the owner or manager the reason for my purchase at his/her competitor rather then there is very important to me as well.

Last edited by shortwave; December 2, 2012 at 07:06 AM.
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Old December 2, 2012, 09:19 AM   #37
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If we boycotted every business with policies we don't agree with we would all be back to subistence farming.
Say we should start a "We Hate Everybody" boycott.
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Old December 3, 2012, 03:37 AM   #38
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Cam Edwards interviewed the fired employee on Cam and Company.

VIDEO LINK
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Old December 3, 2012, 11:48 AM   #39
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If we boycotted every business with policies we don't agree with we would all be back to subistence farming.
Say we should start a "We Hate Everybody" boycott.
I know what you are saying but I have been an Auto Zone customer for a long time, they aren't the only supplier in town and right now all they are going to get from me is the back of my head as I walk away from them. As of yesterday I go across the street to 'Bumper to Bumper'.
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Old December 3, 2012, 01:59 PM   #40
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Same here Old Grump.
Just too many other auto parts places to do bus. with.
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Old December 3, 2012, 03:04 PM   #41
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The way I see it, he broke the rules, and shouldn't expect anything differently.
Also, if I were him, I would've let the robber just take whatever the hell he wanted. To me, that job isn't worth putting myself in harm's way to try to stop a robbery. IMO, he's lucky he caught the robber off guard and wasn't shot in the process of trying to play hero.
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Old December 3, 2012, 04:36 PM   #42
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The way I see it, he broke the rules, and shouldn't expect anything differently.
Also, if I were him, I would've let the robber just take whatever the hell he wanted. To me, that job isn't worth putting myself in harm's way to try to stop a robbery. IMO, he's lucky he caught the robber off guard and wasn't shot in the process of trying to play hero.
You are right of course, you are not your brothers keeper, do not carry a badge and if other people get killed because nobody tried to stop this guy it's no skin off your nose. Sleep tight knowing we are all here looking out for you because you are worth any 20 of us dummies.

It wasn't the store manager that fired him it was the district manager and the store manager apologized to this guy about it. Sounds like he saved a stand up guy only to get knocked down by a petty small minded penny pinching bean counter. Good things jobs are plentiful in this economy, he should have no problem finding another job. In the meantime he can sell his gun to buy groceries and pay the rent with.
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Old December 4, 2012, 12:24 AM   #43
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I couldn't agree more Old Grump. Sarcasm and all.
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Old December 4, 2012, 10:31 AM   #44
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Sounds like this guy broke company policy, thats why he got fired end of story. So if you work in a government building like a court house for example, which by federal law prohibits firearms in the court house, you bring your gun to the court and are caught and prosecuted. And you defense would be you were exercising you 2nd amendment rights, you would loose your case and spend time in jail. You knowingly broke the law case closed. Common sense should be exercised on a daily basis. Individual businesses have the right to set thier own policies, would I go into a store that had a "no guns" sign in the window, NO I would not, thats my choice, and thier policy is thier choice.
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Old December 4, 2012, 12:27 PM   #45
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jasmith85 wrote:

Quote:
but also would have technically broke the law if he was here in Tennessee.
Which law would have been broken ?
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Old December 4, 2012, 05:54 PM   #46
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Quote:
It wasn't the store manager that fired him it was the district manager and the store manager apologized to this guy about it. Sounds like he saved a stand up guy only to get knocked down by a petty small minded penny pinching bean counter. Good things jobs are plentiful in this economy, he should have no problem finding another job. In the meantime he can sell his gun to buy groceries and pay the rent with.
So you wonder why the store manager didn't whip out his own gun and and be a stand up guy and protect his employees?
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Old December 4, 2012, 07:41 PM   #47
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So you wonder why the store manager didn't whip out his own gun and and be a stand up guy and protect his employees?
Do you think he would have been a store manager very long if anybody in home office discovered he was armed.

Wisconsin has 5.7 million people.

134.000 have CCW permits.

Estimates by those who track those things say less than half of that number carry regularly.

Even though it is legal and widely publicized gun carriers are regularly ostracized by their peers and harassed by police officers who make their own rules as they go.

We have a long way to go culturally speaking.
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Old December 5, 2012, 05:39 PM   #48
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Do you think he would have been a store manager very long if anybody in home office discovered he was armed.
About as long as the employee who was fired for having a gun at work. So the manager, who is supposed to be responsible, isn't his brother's keeper either. Got it.
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Old December 5, 2012, 05:51 PM   #49
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AutoZone has decided they don't want legal guns on their property -- just the illegal ones.

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Old December 5, 2012, 06:26 PM   #50
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The hero of our little tale didn't have one in the store either because it was against the rules. He was in the rest room got outside, retrieved his gun and came back to rescue his manager who was on the ground covered by a gun. What did you expect the store manager to do, tackle him with his bare hands?

Oh that's right, you expected him to go home.
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