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Old January 2, 2012, 04:07 PM   #1
blacksky
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North American Big game hunting with a 6.5x284 NORMA

I was curious if any one has had any dealing with the Savage Long Range Hunter in 6.5x.284 NORMA? Any ups or downs to mention about the rifle or caliber. What about hunting big game in North America. Looking at distance, (300 to 600 yards), with knock down power, with the least amount of felt recoil, to avoid recoil flinch.

Here is a link for Savage to ward off any confusion. Click Centerfire and find the model listing.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/
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Last edited by blacksky; January 2, 2012 at 10:38 PM.
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Old January 2, 2012, 05:22 PM   #2
Baba Louie
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6.5x284?

With a 600 yd zero and still around 1300+ ft/lbs of energy at that distance I suppose Bambi or Yogi might never know what hit them or care, but how much edible meat around the impact/wound channel at regular hunting distances is going to be affected? (it just blew out Bambi's entire left shoulder... still something we can eat on tho).

2740 ft/lb muzzle energy. Down to 1000 ft/lbs at 800 yds.

Hunting big game?
Sure. It could.
But... why? (I know, why not?) 6.5-06 or .260 Rem for most ethical hunting oughta suffice with minimal over penetration. Would be fun to light a few of those 6.5x284 Normas off. And I bet that Savage will put them right where you want them.
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Old January 2, 2012, 05:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
But... why? (I know, why not?) 6.5-06 or .260 Rem for most ethical hunting oughta suffice with minimal over penetration.
6.5-284 and 6.5-06 are essentially the same ballisticly, and neither are all that much hotter than .260 Rem.

Should be fine on just about anything in North America.
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Old January 2, 2012, 10:38 PM   #4
blacksky
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Bambi or Yogi might never know what hit...

Looking at distance, (300 to 600 yards), with knock down power, with the least amount of felt recoil, to avoid recoil flinch.
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Old January 3, 2012, 12:05 AM   #5
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Quote:
6.5-284 and 6.5-06 are essentially the same ballisticly, and neither are all that much hotter than .260 Rem.
Yes but the edge that they have is critical for pushing the heavier grained high BC 6.5 bullets in the 2900s and higher. More energy downrange the better. Then again .260 AI could do the same.
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Old January 3, 2012, 12:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Yes but the edge that they have is critical for pushing the heavier grained high BC 6.5 bullets in the 2900s
I agree. Unless I am reading him wrong, "Baba Louie" was implying that 6.5x284 was too much but 6.5-06 was OK. I was just pointing out they are essentially the same thing.

To the OP, very few people have any business shooting at a game animal at 600 yards. There is way too much to get wrong.
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Old January 3, 2012, 12:20 AM   #7
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Felt recoil has a lot to do with how the firearm fits the shooter, form and techniques. The recoil pad, rifle design, weight and stock materials used are also factors.

I have never shot the 6.5 x 284 NORMA but have read they do not have a long barrel life.

If you go to YouTube there are plenty of hunting videos of the 6.5 x 284 NORMA taking game a long ranges. I believe the hunter uses the 6.5 x 284 NORMA on this long range moose shot.

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?ne...%3DcWAXQUCv8qo
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Old January 3, 2012, 02:13 AM   #8
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To clear up my point and thread objective...

The 6.5X.284 appears to be slightly superior to the 6.5-06.

It is equal to the .270W... But superior in some ways.

It takes advantage of the far superior 6.5mm bullets.

With the Norma version providing even better results.

And it is right on the heels of the .264 Win Mag.

Several things people never think about when comparing it to the .270W.

Is that although both have very similar performance out to 300 yards.

This is where the Higher BC 6.5mm bullets really start to show their advantage.

Another advantage never mentioned, is the standard 160g bullets, far heavier than the heaviest normally available in the .270W.

Although a round nose bullet, this bullet should allow you to cleanly take far heavier game.
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Old January 3, 2012, 02:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
The 6.5X.284 appears to be slightly superior to the 6.5-06.
Aside from the fact that you can purchase loaded ammunition for the 6.5x284 (At great expense) I don't see how.

The 6.5-06 case is larger, (by about .4 cc usable space), and my Hornady manual shows about 100 fps higher for the -06 in just about all bullet weights.

According to Hodgdon, both will launch a 140gr bullet around 2800 FPS and a a 160gr around 2700 FPS, so at worst, they are equal.

The 6.5-284 in theory can be chambered in a short action, but with a long bullet you probably won't fit them in a short action magazine. The .284 is fatter, which in theory is better for accuracy (short fat powder column) but the magazine will hold fewer rounds.

It is pretty much a wash.

Quote:
If you go to YouTube there are plenty of hunting videos of the 6.5 x 284 NORMA taking game a long ranges. I believe the hunter uses the 6.5 x 284 NORMA on this long range moose shot.
The comments say it was a 300 mag. And you will never convince me a 1100 meter shot on game is ethical. I wonder how many he crippled before he got that one.
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Old January 3, 2012, 02:58 AM   #10
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It doesn't matter than cartridge if you use the wrong bullet.
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Old January 3, 2012, 03:40 AM   #11
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He did say north American big game, not just deer. I used a .300 Win Mag for 20 years up until this year without wrecking meat. Just hit them where you're supposed to. Go with what you want. And I don't think my .300 Win kicks much...
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Old January 3, 2012, 11:41 AM   #12
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but the magazine will hold fewer rounds

Of all the calibers that I have researched for this firearm, most are limited to 3round mags. That is not an issue, because it only takes one round properly placed to get the job done, if needed you still have 2 more rounds...
I have read many good things about this caliber and was looking for advice from anyone that may have used it or may have used the Savage rifle in question. The goal as stated was long range, accuracy with knock down power, with light felt recoil, used for harvesting large North American game.
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Old January 3, 2012, 01:08 PM   #13
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I looked at the LR Hunter, but I would consider them a stand rifle, not a packing rifle. Shooting at game to 300, I chose the 260 with 125 Noslers. To 600, my 7mmRM will be shooting 150 Noslers at 3240.

I'll put a different spin on the 6.5-06. I had my barrel throated for 140 SMK, so I can hit 3200, 3070, and 2935 with 120, 129, and 140 (24"barrel).
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Old January 3, 2012, 02:16 PM   #14
blacksky
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Savage LR Hunter I would consider them a stand rifle, not a packing rifle.

OK then lets drop the rifle in question and consentrate on the caliber. I am open to other suggestions. When I say North american Big Game I'm talking IE: Elk and Mule Deer etc.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/hunting_bullet_guide1.htm
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Old January 3, 2012, 03:33 PM   #15
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With 140 grain Sierra gamekings @ 2900 FPS, it has over 1000 ft-lbs of energy at 600 yards, so yeah, it would probably be fatal if you managed to put one in the boiler room.

The heavier bullets don't fly as well, and fall below 1000 ft-lbs before 500 yards, and have a lot more wind.

Of course those bullets are still dropping about 10 inches every 25 yards past about 500 yards, so hopefully you get the range exactly right.

And hopefully you have a good zero at that range, at that altitude, because what your ballistic program spits out may or may not have any bearing on reality. Most likely not.

And hopefully what you thought was a 4 MPH wind at 30º isn't really 8 MPH at 45º, because that adds about 10 inches more drift at 600 yards.
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Old January 3, 2012, 04:44 PM   #16
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Placement IMO should come before bullets. No bullet on earth is going to guarantee good performance, and it just furthers the result if placement is not precise.
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Old January 3, 2012, 04:58 PM   #17
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Wind and other factors

Quote:
The heavier bullets don't fly as well, and fall below 1000 ft-lbs before 500 yards, and have a lot more wind.
Just about every precision rifleman knows the 100-yard group his rifle fires; since he knows his group doubles at 200 yards, and triples at 300, quadruples at 400 and so on, he can determine the maximum distance that he can place a shot in a deer’s vitals – which is his maximum range.

http://www.millettsights.com/downloa...Ballistics.pdf
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Old January 3, 2012, 05:49 PM   #18
emcon5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackops_2
Placement IMO should come before bullets. No bullet on earth is going to guarantee good performance, and it just furthers the result if placement is not precise.
That was my point above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksky
Just about every precision rifleman knows the 100-yard group his rifle fires; since he knows his group doubles at 200 yards, and triples at 300, quadruples at 400 and so on, he can determine the maximum distance that he can place a shot in a deer’s vitals – which is his maximum range.
Not sure what that has to do with what you quoted, but OK.

If the game animal was standing still, on a billiard table smooth/flat surveyed range, tied to the "600 yards" sign, on a perfectly windless day, you (and Maj Plaster) would be right.

The real world doesn't work like that. Reread Maj Plaster's article, but this time go all the way to the bottom, specifically "The Ethics of the Long-Range Shot"

My 6.5-06 is about a 3/4 minute gun. I would say I am a decent shot, I have been varmint hunting for about 20 years, used to compete in NRA/CMP Service rifle matches pretty regularly (out to 600 yards with iron sights), even have a Leg Medal around here somewhere.

At my local range, there is a steel plate at 600 yards, that is about a foot square. I have so far, never missed that plate with my 6.5.

I would not take a shot at a deer at that range, for the reasons I stated above. The bullet really will drop about 10" every 25 yards traveled around 600 yards. Those wind figures are from my range sheet for long range matches. Actually, those are for match bullets, hunting bullets will be a little worse.

A prairie dog, sure, and I have, even hit some. The difference is that if you misjudge the wind or the range on a varmint, you miss completely. If you misjudge the wind or range on a deer, you have a cripple.

Even if you have the best laser range finder money can buy, and can get the range perfect every time, you still have to account for wind, and while the 6.5 family are very good in the wind, they are still subject to it. And the funny thing about wind, what is happening where you are standing, is probably not the same thing happening where your target is, or at any point along the bullets path. There are no wind flags in the field, and while mirage is a good guide, that is all it is, a guide. High Master Long Range shooters, with decades of experience, at ranges with wind flags still get the wind wrong regularly.

Just curious, what is the farthest you have shot?
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Old January 3, 2012, 06:05 PM   #19
blacksky
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Just curious, what is the farthest you have shot?

Not trying to be argumentive here was just saying I understood your point. I have read the article along with many others and have been hunting since I was 9 years old. I would not shoot at any animal that I didn't think would be an inhumane or unethical shot!

Quote:
Just curious, what is the farthest you have shot?
That's an open question...

Farthest kill 300 yards. Longest shot in the kill zone from a bench 400 yards and improving. So yes I know and understand the difference in firearms used for different applications. That is why I opened this and several other threads over the past few weeks. I'm looking for that one perfect rifle that suits multiple needs in the field. I don't need another bench or stand rifle. I want the best of both worlds in one sweet package.

Thanks for your input!
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Old January 3, 2012, 07:29 PM   #20
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Well, at least you didn't say you wanted it for under $300.
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Old January 3, 2012, 08:41 PM   #21
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I have never shot a 6.5x284, just sat near one when they were shooting. I have a 6.5x47L and it uses a lot less powder to get the same results. My rifle shoots a 1" group at 400 yds. and recoil is negligible. The problem is you have to have one made for you. And you have to reload. My longest kill was 800 Yds. on a coyote. And longest big game was 600 yds. on an Elk. But that was with a 700rem.mag. I have since learned that you do not have to take that kick to get the results. 260 Rem. will do the job.

Last edited by igousigloo; January 3, 2012 at 08:54 PM.
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Old January 3, 2012, 11:42 PM   #22
blacksky
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260 Rem. will do the job...

I have opened threads over the past month on the 6.5X47, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor vs the 260, then the 308, 300 WinMag, 300WSM, 7MM Mag and now the 6.5X284. Somehow the Remington 260 keeps popping up in the majority of these threads? I must be missing something somewhere?
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Old December 11, 2012, 02:58 PM   #23
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6.5x284 norma

I have the savage 111 Long range hunter in 6.5x284 norma. According to the hornady HITS calculator, this cartridge can take Moose sized game up to approx 500 yards. I am using reloder 19 and berger 140 vld's and I am getting a muzzle velocity of 2900 fps. The cartridge is suitable for deer sized game out to 1,000 yards, if you do your part.

At 500 yards with the load mentioned above, the figures are: 2274fps and 1607ft-lbs.

The rifle shoots 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups. With a better stock and bedding, it probably would tighten up; my savage in .308 tightened up with bedding and an hs precision stock.
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