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Old November 30, 2012, 07:08 AM   #1
rebs
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which Ar would you choose to buy ?

I have been looking at a Colt match target competition model and a Windham Weaponry varmint exterminator and deciding which one to buy.
I believe the Windham would be more accurate with a better trigger, compass lake chamber and matching bolt.
The Colt trigger is not so good and I have heard of the Colt being referred to as a glorified service rifle with nothing really match grade about it.
I have friends at the gun club that own the Windham and I know they are extremely accurate.
The Windham is a 1 in 8 twist and the Colt is a 1 in 9 twist.

Who on here has the Colt and what kind of accuracy do you get ?

Last edited by rebs; November 30, 2012 at 08:56 AM.
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Old November 30, 2012, 06:14 PM   #2
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Either one would be fine. I've had Colt MTs that would shoot 3/8" with no other tweaks but a good scope and Black Hills match ammo. This is what I know about the Compass Lake chamber. I've not owned a Windham, but have every intention of getting one in the next few months. Based on what I've seen and read, I think they are, arguably of course, one of the best ARs out there for the money.
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Old December 1, 2012, 12:44 AM   #3
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Sorry, but I just couldn't go with Windham since it's a zombie of the original Bushmaster because they're right back to cutting the same old corners in the same old factory.

Any AR that comes with a commercial diameter receiver extension is automatically off my good to go list. You won't see that in a Colt. When you see the commercial tube you can bet it's just the start of other cost savings measures a manufacturer considers acceptable.
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Old December 13, 2012, 10:18 AM   #4
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I bought my wife a Colt preban R6830 7.62x39 for her birthday in 1992. She loved it then and still does. I bought myself a Colt preban R6601 2.23 match H Bar in 1994. Both are great rifles. They don't have all the fancy bells and whistles on them available today. In fact other than the Trijicon on hers and the collapseble stocks on both, they are just as we bought them 20 or so years ago. I haven't shot a new one, but I'm sure if you spend somewhere between $1100 and $1500 and a major brand, you will be very happy.
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Old December 13, 2012, 11:14 AM   #5
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I bought a like-new Colt 20" plain vanilla about five years back. With irons I can get three shots into one MOA off the bench. Decent trigger. Plenty good for a social gun. I then got a CMMG 20" slow-twist upper, flat-top, for varmint and truck-gun use. Weaver K4 on top. Again, 3-shot one-MOA shooter.

I don't doubt that there's a bunch of others just as good, but the price was right and it's plenty good for non-precision messing around.
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Old December 13, 2012, 12:28 PM   #6
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Build one. If you can push two pins together you can put an AR together from an upper and lower reciever, and avoid the 11% tariff.

Also, Quentin2, you need to read up on Windham. They are more like the ORIGINAL bushmaster not the Ilion, NY crap that Remarlington puts out now.
The Original Bushmaster rivaled Colt quality up until Remington ruined them.

They shuttered the factory in Windham ME, layed off employees by moving production to the Ilion NY complex, and sold the rest back to the founder of Bushmaster. After 5 years of non-compete clause wore off, the founder of WW restarted the plant with some of the original workers, and started building Colt-Quality ARs again at affordable price. Look at a WW SRC and compare it to a Colt LE6920. you can do that at most Walmarts in the Southern US. Fit and Finish on the Windham is comparable to the Colt in every way except rate of twist (1/7 twist isn't good for 55 grain bulk ammo)

Also, read up on who makes Colts lower recievers. A commercial tube is on 90% of the consumer ARs on the market including DPMS, Del-Ton, Doublestar and others. Just order a $30 UTG stock kit with the mil-spec tube and move on. That has no bearing on the quality of the rifle IMEO
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Old December 13, 2012, 12:35 PM   #7
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I second the Windham, worth a look. The barrel does have the 1in9 twist, fwiw.

Bob
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Old December 13, 2012, 03:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Also, Quentin2, you need to read up on Windham. They are more like the ORIGINAL bushmaster not the Ilion, NY crap that Remarlington puts out now.
The Original Bushmaster rivaled Colt quality up until Remington ruined them.

They shuttered the factory in Windham ME, layed off employees by moving production to the Ilion NY complex, and sold the rest back to the founder of Bushmaster. After 5 years of non-compete clause wore off, the founder of WW restarted the plant with some of the original workers, and started building Colt-Quality ARs again at affordable price. Look at a WW SRC and compare it to a Colt LE6920. you can do that at most Walmarts in the Southern US. Fit and Finish on the Windham is comparable to the Colt in every way except rate of twist (1/7 twist isn't good for 55 grain bulk ammo)

Also, read up on who makes Colts lower recievers. A commercial tube is on 90% of the consumer ARs on the market including DPMS, Del-Ton, Doublestar and others. Just order a $30 UTG stock kit with the mil-spec tube and move on. That has no bearing on the quality of the rifle IMEO
jlove1974, you didn't understand my post. I was talking about the original Bushamster. They, the new BM and WW (I have read their story) do not build Colt quality. Good places to start looking for corners cut are the barrel, bolt/carrier, staking and the receiver extension. Why would you buy from any company that stiffs you like that when PSA gives you the real deal in the <$800 range? (Assuming you don't want to pay a little more for Colt)

ETA:
Also in your opinion why isn't 1/7 good for 55gr? In my experience and most others, 1/7 does just fine for 55gr and up. If you want to shoot low weight varmint rounds then 1/9 may be better however if you want to go above 69gr then 1/7 makes more sense. It's a tradeoff and we all must know what we're going to use the rifle for. BTW, I normally shoot 55 gr from my BCM, DD and PSA.

Last edited by Quentin2; December 13, 2012 at 03:47 PM.
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Old December 13, 2012, 04:52 PM   #9
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I'd go with the Colt, it's the standard by which all other ARs are judged.

Does it cost more? Yes. Is it worth it? IMO, yes.

Good luck.
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Old December 13, 2012, 05:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
I'd go with the Colt, it's the standard by which all other ARs are judged.

Does it cost more? Yes. Is it worth it? IMO, yes.
Why?
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Old December 13, 2012, 06:29 PM   #11
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There is a colt MT 6700 at the local gun shop right now brand new for 1300.00 out the door, BUT something in the back of my mind tells me not to buy it. Its a chrome lined barrel and I don't care for a chrome lined barrel, the trigger is kind of rough and heavy pull. I just don't see it as a match target rifle.
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Old December 13, 2012, 08:21 PM   #12
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rebs, I only know from reading, but most comments about chrome-lined say that they are a bit less capable of really-tight groups than are the plain steel.

Trigger comments have included very careful stoning of the sear engagment and polishing of the hinge pin. Most seem to change out to a Jewell or McCormick trigger or equivalent.
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Old December 14, 2012, 06:57 PM   #13
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Today held a Knights Armament rifle. The ambi controls are cool. The finish on the rifle was without peer for a rifle of that nature.

$2,300 price tag.

Nice rifle if you have $2,300.
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Old December 14, 2012, 07:42 PM   #14
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Yes. Colt is certainly a standard by which others are judged.

Here is the rub, many are judged to be equal and BETTER than the Colt standard.

In school, you can get a F, D, C, B, or an A grade. The "C" is the standard by which others are judged.
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Old December 14, 2012, 08:05 PM   #15
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Why?(pay more for a Colt)
This could be a post in itself and we still wouldn't know anything.

Colt builds their guns "right."

Still, if I want a match AR, I'll be shopping Compass Lake and requesting a premium barrel blank, which OMG is NOT chrome line, so it is match accurate! It is not reall milspec in any way!

If I want a best fighting AR, I will build my own of top shelf BCM, Armalite, DD, etc parts so I KNOW the assembly is right. Likely, it won't be milspec either.

If I want a plinking AR, it will be made by me from PSA, Magpul, SAA, etc parts. It will be the closest to milspec, but not as it will be purpose built for non-war fun.

To buy your AR, know the spec basics, look the gun over, feel the trigger, weight balance and pick one for your mission. If you guessed wrong, you will likely be able to modify it to fit your mission better for a few $100, or likely, you could adapt yourself to help your gun fit its role!
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Old December 14, 2012, 08:09 PM   #16
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NCHP and most local LEO's here are carrying Rock River.

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Old December 14, 2012, 09:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltman77
I'd go with the Colt, it's the standard by which all other ARs are judged.

Does it cost more? Yes. Is it worth it? IMO, yes.

Good luck.
I really dislike posts like this with no information as to why Colt is better. Are they a good brand? Absolutely. Would I trust my life to a Colt AR? Absolutely. Would I have any doubt about using Colt parts in a build? Absolutely not.

But, just making a general statement about Colt being the best just fuels the fire that you are just paying for the name. I think we should focus on what makes a Colt AR a good AR as opposed to it being good because it's a Colt.
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Old December 15, 2012, 05:01 PM   #18
Coltman 77
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltman77
I'd go with the Colt, it's the standard by which all other ARs are judged.

Does it cost more? Yes. Is it worth it? IMO, yes.

Good luck.

I really dislike posts like this with no information as to why Colt is better. Are they a good brand? Absolutely. Would I trust my life to a Colt AR? Absolutely. Would I have any doubt about using Colt parts in a build? Absolutely not.

But, just making a general statement about Colt being the best just fuels the fire that you are just paying for the name. I think we should focus on what makes a Colt AR a good AR as opposed to it being good because it's a Colt.


I'm sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities with my post. I certainly wasn't implying what you read into it.

On the other hand, I figured we all knew the history of Colt rifles and why they're regarded as an industry standard.

BTW, I noticed you didn't offer the OP any suggestions about what to purchase.

I'd suggest the next time you write a post you take a positive approach.
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Old December 16, 2012, 03:00 PM   #19
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Bottom line, Colt bought the AR15 from the original Armalite. They have the TDP for both the M16 and M4. Thats what they build. BCM and Daniel Defense and others will also built to mil spec, but Colt has it down.

Buy what you like. But you can't go wrong with Colt especially for what 6920s have been available for lately.
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Old December 16, 2012, 04:37 PM   #20
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Have you considered building your own?
The truly critical parts are the barrel / bolt, bolt carrier, trigger group.
The rest of the parts just hold the critical parts together.
As long as they are made to MilSpec or equivalent, there is no need to spend big $ for a name.
Buy yourself a high quality barrel / bolt. Preferably, buy the BCG from the same company. Buy a high quality trigger assembly, Geissele comes to mind.
The lower and uppers, as long as they are made properly are not stressed, do not handle firing pressures and can come from any decent manufacturer.
Build your own and save the $100.00 federal tax on complete firearms too!
(Help wean the federal spendthrifts off our tax $. Spend the $ yourself.)

Roger
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Old December 16, 2012, 07:57 PM   #21
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My duck hunting partner has a Les Baer flattop with a scope for ground squirrels. I have shot it and am convinced you could shoot golf balls at 300 yards.

They run around $2,200.
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Old December 18, 2012, 04:55 PM   #22
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On the other hand, I figured we all knew the history of Colt rifles and why they're regarded as an industry standard.
Well, call me ignorant, but you "figured" wrong in my case. However, I am ready to be enlightened if you would just be so kind as to cite the empirical evidence proving that Colt is the "industry standard". I can appreciate djcantr's reservations concerning your blanket assertion without offering any supportive facts. I don't think that approach is especially helpful to the op in his quest to buy the "right" AR-15 rifle for him. Oh, and not to worry. I don't have any "delicate sensibilities" to offend.

As to my recommendation, since the op stated that he is interested in a "match target competition" rifle, I say look at the Rock River Arms National Match A4. It comes with the Wylde chamber, the superb NM 2-stage trigger, a 20" long, air gauged, heavy match s/s barrel with a 1:8 twist and a detachable handle. The RRA rifle is relatively affordable (at least as compared to the Colt and other equivalent rifles), comes with a lifetime warranty and is guaranteed to shoot 3/4" MOA groups @ 100 yards.
I have competed in the Service rifle matches at Camp Perry and other sites and have found my RRA match rifle to be accurate, reliable and well-made.
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Old December 18, 2012, 05:19 PM   #23
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I would buy the Colt. They are a better known name with a good reputation. As it is, even though I never really thought I would, I'm thinking of getting a second LE6920.
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Old December 19, 2012, 10:03 AM   #24
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Colt is milspec. Day in and day out. That is best. It is not the very best money can buy. At some point you must consider better the enemy of good. Good enough is great. It all depends on your standards. Milspec is a good standard.
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Old December 19, 2012, 11:15 AM   #25
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To be honest other than the finish, I have yet to see a newer manufactured AR style rifle that is unreliable. I own a DDV4, M&P15, CMMG, & Hk MR556. Each rifle has been 100% reliable. I only have a couple hundred rounds through the Hk, but still. I have owned Colt, DPMS, and RRA's versions too. All function exactly as they were designed. You need to decide which you want, because of the features you like. We can only offer facts and opinions. Best of luck with the decision, and enjoy whichever you choose.
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