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Old December 4, 2012, 06:28 PM   #1
chris in va
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'Bolt action' Garand?

Recently I heard about a member removing the piston from his AK to effectively make it a bolt action single shot.

Say I wanted to do this with reduced loads in my Garand, using cast lead bullets. Possible? Remove the gas plug?

Would it harm the gas system in any way?
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Old December 4, 2012, 06:33 PM   #2
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You can buy a schuster plug and leave it full open, and it won't cycle. Dunno about leaving the system fully open with no plug since crud will get in, but I know this IS doable.
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Old December 4, 2012, 10:45 PM   #3
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When I shot for the Alaska NG, we did our winter practice indoors on NRA Small Bore targets.

I shot a ton of cast bullets in a Garand and M14 without doing anthing to the gas system.

I still shoot cast bullets in my gas guns, it doesn't hurt a dern thing.
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Old December 5, 2012, 02:16 AM   #4
chris in va
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Well, I'd have to reduce the powder charge for cast, and that would screw with the cycling of the bolt. Can't be pushing a 155gr gascheck wheelweight at 2750fps.

I tried using cast in my AK but the gun locked up solid when a ring of lead formed in the gas block. The Garand has a similar system so I'd want to shut off the piston cycling somehow.
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Old December 5, 2012, 09:47 AM   #5
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You have to understand, the AK is not a Garand, no where close. I've fired thousands upon thousands of cast bullets out of the Garand (and M1A, M1 Carbine & ARs) without shutting off the gas system.

Sure the reduced loads don't work the action, but I do most of my cast bullet shooting practicing for Offhand, which requires single loading.

After all, rifle matches are won or lost in the offhand (standing) position.

Look in the old Army rifle/ammo manuels, they are full of reduced loads for our service rifles, from the Krag to the Garand. Granted some of the powders they list arn't available now, but some (Bullseye & Unique) are.

Don't or do use cast bullets in your gas guns, that's your choice, but PLEASE, don't compair the AK to the Garand.
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Old December 5, 2012, 08:26 PM   #6
chris in va
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I say that because the Garand and AK have similar gas and piston setups.

When you shoot cast through yours, do you download and cycle by hand?
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Old December 5, 2012, 08:56 PM   #7
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I'm confused, why does this matter? If you manage to get something into the gas system, undo the plug, slide the piston off and clean?

Don't see what the issue is.
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Old December 5, 2012, 10:40 PM   #8
chris in va
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On my AK, melted bullet lead formed a ring in the gas block where the piston head fit into the opening. It took a few whacks with a mallet on the bolt handle to unsieze the action.

I just don't want anything similar happening with my M1. I have a ton of cast Lee 155's waiting to be loaded, would be nice to use them.
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Old December 6, 2012, 10:28 AM   #9
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It wont happen on your Garand. As I said, I've fired thousands of cast bullets out of my Garand (as well as my other gas guns) and never a problem.

I can't tell you about AK's. Don't have one and never fired cast bullets from one.

Keep the velocity to about 1200 fps. That's also the velocity that keeps managers of indoor ranges happy.

Reduced (cast bullet) loads are a means of some good, cheap, practice ammo and can be pretty dern accurate if you pay attention to your casting and loading.
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Old December 6, 2012, 05:53 PM   #10
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Doesn't OSHA prevent firing cast/non jacketed rounds indoors?
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Old December 6, 2012, 06:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Doesn't OSHA prevent firing cast/non jacketed rounds indoors?
No, it's done all the time. Maybe some ranges, but its not OSHA.

Tons of 22s are fired yearly in indoor ranges.
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Old December 7, 2012, 03:49 PM   #12
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Last time I checked, OSHA was only concerned about lead paint and such in the work place.

Recreation activities, not so much.
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Old December 7, 2012, 05:56 PM   #13
chris in va
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Looks like I'll pass on shooting lead through it. Too many first hand reports of a similar situation with my AK. Talked with a guy at my range that tried reduced loads in his AR, locked it up so bad the entire gas system had to be replaced.

Oh well. Guess I'll have to find pulled bullets again, although everyone seems to be out.
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Old December 7, 2012, 07:25 PM   #14
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How about 1400 rounds of a 163 gr bullet in front of 46 gr of 4831 at just under 2000 fps running 5"- 8" groups at 100 yards. No gas check and no discernible leading. Anything over 1900 fps will cycle the action if the bullet is heavy enough. It was all I had and haven't done it since but I'm thinking about doing it with my .308 Garand using the 145 gr LRN bullets that I use with the 30-30 for my next experiment. It's supposed to be a winter project so I'd better get cracking and finish my bench.
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