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Old November 5, 2012, 04:17 PM   #1
aarondhgraham
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I would pay someone to sight in my rifles,,,

I would pay someone to sight in my rifles,,,
But they would have to prove themselves with a series of tight groups.

So here's the story,,,
I'm a mediocre rifle shot at best,,,
I believe all of my rifles can shoot a smaller group,,,
But I have no faith that I can adjust the sights to dead on the bulls eye.

A few years ago I was plinking away with a Henry Acu-Bolt,,,
At fifty yards off of a bench rest the best group I could do was about 3-4 inches.

So up comes this lady I know who is a much better shot than most people I know,,,
She throws five shots downrange that I could cover with a quarter,,,
They were a bit left of center so I adjusted the scope,,,
My resulting group wasn't tighter than before,,,
But it "clouded" more over the bulls eye.

I asked her about sighting in all of my rifles for me,,,
She chuckled and said she didn't have time,,,
I even offered to pay her for the service,,,
But she just wasn't interested.

I would gladly pay for the service,,,
But I've never seen or heard it being advertised.

Aarond

.
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Old November 5, 2012, 04:22 PM   #2
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You could always invest in a shooting sled.
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Old November 5, 2012, 04:34 PM   #3
Erno86
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If you are willing to pay...I would invest in hiring a good shooting coach --- if not --- practice with a 22, till you feel confident enough to go on to the bigger bores. If you start to flinch...go back to the 22, and work out your problems.
Remember: breath, relax, press the trigger and follow through.

Last edited by Erno86; November 5, 2012 at 04:39 PM.
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Old November 5, 2012, 04:38 PM   #4
spacecoast
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Aarond -

I believe there's an issue with your request in that one person's zero is not another's zero, it somewhat depends on where you feel comfortable and how your head fits/eyes line up behind the sights/scope. That obviously differs from person to person.

I started off like you, but I do much better than I used to with practice. Once those groups tighten a little you'll be able to get a good zero. Try to be very consistent with where/how you place your cheek on the rifle. One adjustment I made that helped is to lower my seat about 3 inches at the range. I am long-bodied (short-legged) for my height and I tend to hunch if I sit at the same level with respect to the bench as everyone else. Discomfort in the form on hunching is not consistent with getting a good, consistent cheek weld. Sitting up straight helps your breathing too.
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Old November 5, 2012, 05:20 PM   #5
aarondhgraham
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Hi Guys,,,

My .22 rifles are about all I shoot in long guns,,,
I do have an H&R in .357 but I only use it on armadillos,,,
That rifle is scoped and I can pop the rascals out to 100 yards.

I have the Henry Acu-Bolt but am giving that to my young nephew this Christmas,,,
The rifle that I really love shooting is my new CZ 452 Military Trainer,,,
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt it will shoot tight groups,,,
I just need to get my 61 year old body and eyes trained.

Rimfire silhouette is the discipline I want to explore and play with,,,
I purchased a set of spinner targets to practice with,,,
I just wish I knew the rifle was dead on.

I haven't invested in any type of heavy shooting sled,,,
What I have is one of those MTI front rests,,,
It's made of plastic and is light in weight,,,
I could probably build one from wood.

I know at my age I'll never be an Annie Oakley,,,
It would give me more confidence though,,,
To know my rifle was zeroed perfectly.

No more whining,,,
I'll just practice more.

Aarond

.
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Old November 5, 2012, 05:23 PM   #6
Rebel9793
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Caldwell Leadsled...Pain in the rear end to get used to at first, but Helps a bunch. takes the guess work out of things.
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Old November 5, 2012, 06:00 PM   #7
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I wish that you lived closer, I would help you for nothing man. We have a nice range up here in KC, but I bet you have ranges closer to you.
I love to shoot, and it seems I do better the more I shoot, so its all good.
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Old November 5, 2012, 06:02 PM   #8
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Send me your rifles (or bring them to me), and the ammo you want them sighted in with, and I will take care of that for you. Of course, I charge my hourly shop rate to do it for my customers, but hey, nothing's free in life.
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Old November 5, 2012, 07:38 PM   #9
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You are better off practicing and sighting in your own rifle. If you can only get 3-4" groups at 50 yds then you either have something loose or are flinching badly.
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Old November 5, 2012, 07:50 PM   #10
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Aarond,

I have a CZ 452 trainer and the rifle shoots great. I did put a scope on mine and it will shoot quarter size groups of 10 at 50 yards.

Make sure you don't rest the barrel on the bags. Only rest the stock. Try to get your spot close to the action screws in the bottom.

If you let someone else sight in your rifle, you will probably not have the same sight picture.

Let someone else shoot the rifle for groups but don't adjust anything until you have had a chance to shoot it yourself.

If there is a problem with the gun, an experienced shooter probably won't get decent groups either.

My gun was shifting point of impact almost 3 inches at 50 yards and it would happen between rounds at the range.

Not knowing if it was the scope or the gun, I had the on site gunsmith glass bed the rifle and do a trigger job on it.

I got it back last week and the rifle is shooting really good.

Maybe you are having the same issue with your gun. It might be worth a check.
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Old November 5, 2012, 10:40 PM   #11
alex0535
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Consider practicing with a .22 LR or .17 HMR.

Basic shooting technique is exactly the same whether you are firing a .22 caliber rimfire or a large caliber center-fire.

I suggest reading Army Field Manual 23-10, the most important part of this literature for you to read is Chapter 3 Marksmanship. It is sniper training literature. Even though you are not a sniper, like i said earlier the process of shooting accurately is the same with .22LR as it is a much larger rifle.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../23-10/Ch3.htm

Using the tips provided in this manual. I produce groups smaller than a dime from 50 yards with a .17 HMR.
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Old November 5, 2012, 10:56 PM   #12
Brian Pfleuger
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You don't need a Lead Sled unless you're dealing with nasty recoil. A couple small homemade sand bags would be entirely sufficient for "normal" guns. A thicker one for the front and a thinner one for the rear.

Or, a good steady bipod and your fist under the butt stock.

With sandbags, you'd have to be a stoned chimpanzee to shoot 3" groups at 50 yards with a scoped, capable gun.

And the zero thing, that doesn't apply to scopes. A zeroed scope is zeroed unless the shooter isn't doing it right. Any two shooters who use the scope correctly will hit the same spot. Not so with irons.
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Old November 5, 2012, 10:56 PM   #13
Onward Allusion
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Aarond - Every scope/rifle combo will zero just a little differently with different shooters. Someone else's zero won't necessarily be your zero. It could be close or it could be way off.
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Last edited by Onward Allusion; November 5, 2012 at 11:04 PM.
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Old November 5, 2012, 11:06 PM   #14
alex0535
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It may seem like a lot of trouble but it will help your technique if you keep a running log as you shoot. Say you have 5 shots in the rifle. Take a shot following proper technique as well as you can. Where did each shot hit in relation to the bullseye? If it didn't hit the bullseye, take a moment and try to figure out why it didn't hit the bullseye. Write down any ideas as to why the bullet did not go where you wanted it to go.

After a few hundred to a thousand times the whole process will be so ingrained that your groups will shrink probably shrink from inches at 50 yards to centimeters at 100.

Also try and figure out what the weight of pull is on the trigger of your rifle. A lighter one than the one that came on it will probably bring down the size of your groups.
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Old November 5, 2012, 11:11 PM   #15
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I agree that you need some coaching. It's pretty likely that nothing is wrong with your rifle. Let someone else shoot it to see how they do with it.

I wish that I could help you. I lived in Stillwater for about 7 years but I'm a Texan, now.

Flash
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Old November 5, 2012, 11:53 PM   #16
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Wish I lived closer. You wouldn't have to pay me, just pay my range fee. I would sight in any guns you bring even if it takes all day long--as long as you provide the ammo.

I helped a guy sight in his scoped .500 S&W pistol one time at the range. That was an experience. I'd never shot something like that from a rest before.
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Old November 6, 2012, 12:15 AM   #17
Mr Budha
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I know how you feel, I with the others that say practice. I'm new to shooting but every time I go to the range I notice that I'm getting better and better. The one big thing I do is flinch with bigger caliber rifles. I switch in the middle to my .22 marlin and see exactly what I'm doing wrong. But like anything else, practice makes perfect.
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Old November 6, 2012, 09:09 AM   #18
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Aaron, I am not very good either, but I consider sighting in a new rifle to be an important part of the process of getting to know the rifle and becoming comfortable with and confident in the zero.

It is tempting to be frustrated when one's performance is worse than another's. Some else is better than they are, and there are others worse than we are.

If you set your 452 up in a supported position, and really focus on your technique, you will get your best groups, and will not need to worry about the rifle being the weak link when you are shooting off hand.

I don't think you should view this opportunity as an obstacle.
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Old November 6, 2012, 09:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
I don't think you should view this opportunity as an obstacle.
How true!!!
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Old November 6, 2012, 10:37 AM   #20
aarondhgraham
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I hear what you guys are saying,,,

I hear what you guys are saying,,,
I do need more practice with my rifles,,,
It would simply be reassuring to know they are sighted in properly.

It's like when I bought a muscle car back in the 60's,,,
Immediately after the break-in period oil change,,,
I spent money to have it professionally tuned,,,
Then had a proven driver 1/4 mile it.

Then I had a target goal I could measure my own performance against.

I guess my doubts come from not having any idea of,,,
How close to the bullseye the sights were adjusted at the factory,,,
I've had knowledgable shooters say they should be exact and some say just the opposite.

For the time being on my CZ-452,,,
I'm going to resist making any adjustments,,,
Until my groups get much tighter than they are now.

Thanks for the good advice,,,
I'll take it to heart and master this rifle,,,
I have 5,000 rounds of Remington .22 just for this task.

Aarond

.
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Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Combat: "A Silent Cry"
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
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Old November 6, 2012, 11:48 AM   #21
Bart B.
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One does not have to be a "crack" shot to sight in a rifle. It can easily be done if the shooter is able to do one very simple thing. Call their shots.

Calling ones shots is the ability to keep ones eyes open when the rifle fires and see where the sights are on the target at that time. If they're aiming at a 3 inch round bullseye at 50 yards using a scope and the retucule appears to be high and right of the bullseye center when the round fires, that's where the shot is "called."

Now look where the bullet hole is at. If the bullet hole is dead center in the black bullseye, the scope's got to be adjusted 'cause the rifle didn't shoot that bullet high and right of the bullseye's center. So move the scope's adjustments so move impact up and to the right.

Now fire another shot, call it, then see where the bullet hole goes relative to where that shot was called. If the rifle didn't "shoot to call," adjust the scope again, load another round and start over.

Keep doing this until the bullet hole appears exactly (or very close to) where you called the shot.

The objective in this procedure is to get the rifle to shoot where it's aimed. After this is done, you can practice your aiming so you'll shoot closer to the desired point of bullet impact.

Period.

Best wished in your new endeavour.

Last edited by Bart B.; November 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM.
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Old November 6, 2012, 01:12 PM   #22
alex0535
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Are you using iron sights or a scope? Your rifle is available with both from factory so its worth asking.

I would be pretty ok with a couple of inches with iron sights. If you are using iron sights, and have less than perfect vision. You will group better with a red dot or reflex sight than iron sights. Its pretty cool stuff, the dot appears to move depending on the position it is viewed from but a good one should put the bullet wherever the red dot is.

I would suggest putting some sort of optic on it, whether it is a red dot/reflex or a decent quality scope if it doesn't have one already.

Also it looks like your model has an adjustable trigger weight. Drop it down and your groups will improve if you use proper technique. It can probably be reduced considerably but i don't know the range it can be adjusted. They usually come from the factory so high that accuracy is impeded.
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Old November 6, 2012, 02:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
I guess my doubts come from not having any idea of,,,
How close to the bullseye the sights were adjusted at the factory,,,
I've had knowledgable shooters say they should be exact and some say just the opposite.
Aarond,

The day I took my 452 out the first time, I set the sights at 25 yards and it shot SO good, I moved them to 200 yards and hit the popper 3 times out of 5 tries.

THAT is what prompted me to add a scope.

Take a little time with this rifle. . .it WILL make a believer out of you. Those guns are that good.

I am REALLY tempted to by a bull barrel and find out what can be done when you really put your mind to it.

CZ has been around a while and they really have flown under the radar. The guns are really overlooked and that is a shame.
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Old November 6, 2012, 02:06 PM   #24
kraigwy
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Someone else zeroing your rifle means its zeroed for them.

A lead slede zero wont be a hunting zero.

You dont have to shoot itty bitty groups to zero your rifle.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Set your target out to the distance you want it zeroed.

Shoot 10 to 20 rounds, the more the better, dont adjust your sights for this string.

Take your target and draw a cross on it. from 12 to 6 oclock, and 9 to 3 oclock.

Count the bullets in each quarter. Ajust your sights from the high number of shots to the low number of shots.

Now shoot another string. Draw the cross like above, count the holes in each quarter.

Keep doing this until you have the exact number of shots in each quarter.

I don't care how large or small your group is, your rifle is zeroed,, FOR YOU.

Do this using the position you plan on shooting, the most common hunting position is kneeling so sight it in kneeling.

This works with rifle, shotgun or pistols. It works for everyone, regardless of how good or bad you shoot.
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Old November 6, 2012, 02:38 PM   #25
langenc
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If you cant sight it in Im not sure you should be shooting it....

Everyone looks thru sights/scopes differently.

Gel some downlaoded ammo and shoot more or a different rifle.

Lighten the trigger. Most shooters could shoot better w/ a lighter trigger.

I was shooting a Savage 99 I bought. Trigger is at least 6#. I dont shoot it well. I cant seem to find a smith to work on it. No parts available should something get screwed up.
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