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Old November 26, 2012, 05:16 PM   #1
cw308
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firing pin Lock time

Rem. 700 LTR 308 Cal. Bench rest shooting only. Whats your feeling about the speedlock firing pin system ( TUBB 2000 ) or is a waste of money

Last edited by cw308; November 27, 2012 at 08:54 AM.
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Old November 27, 2012, 09:59 AM   #2
Bart B.
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A faster firing pin fall (shorter lock time) is helpful when shooting off the shoulder and the rifle's held by us humans. The more steady your position is, the less it matters. When benchresting a rifle, it doesn't matter any significant amount.

I bought one of David Tubb's speedlock systems direct from him at a match years ago. Tried it in my Winchester 70 shoulder fired match rifles. Did not see any real advantage except a small amount in standing. No visible difference in sitting or prone positions.

The more your rifle's aiming point moves around starting when the sear releases the firing pin and when the pin detonates the primer, the more a speedlock system will help. Perfectly still rifles atop a bench? 'Tis not needed.

The above aside, a 10% to 15% stronger firing pin spring from Wolff will get the primers smacked harder and that typically helps them put heat into the powder more consistantly. Besides that spring should be replaced every few years anyway. It'll speed up your firing pin fall and smack primers really good much cheaper than Tubb's speed lock system.
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Old November 27, 2012, 12:32 PM   #3
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Sounds good to me. I haven't changed the spring, been shooting bench only with this rifle. Will order a spring. Thanks for your advise. Chris
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Old November 27, 2012, 04:26 PM   #4
Erno86
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If you notice any heartbeat pulse-jump in the rifle, whether shooting off the bench, prone, sitting, etc --- a faster firing pin will help. In one of my AR's...I use a titanium firing pin. As of yet...I've haven't trained myself, to shoot between heartbeats.
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Old November 27, 2012, 04:54 PM   #5
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In 2006, Kent Reeve won the Long Range Championship with a single shot Mauser action. http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=6760. From what I have heard it was a 300 Win Mag, single-shot Interarms target-model action. No magazine well opening or thumb cut.

The M98 has a longer lock time than a M70 or a M700. Kent stated somewhere that he had to concentrate on a good followthrough.

Don't we all.


Kent is an exceptional shot.

A speedy firing pin is fine but lots of practice is better.
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Old November 27, 2012, 06:01 PM   #6
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Slamfire, I shot LR matches in the early '70's with a guy who used an FN single shot action as you mentioned. He stripped the bolt to show is how he'd fluted the firing pin and cocking piece as well as its stronger pin spring. Dry firing it proved to be about as fast as Win 70's. Very nice action with a Timney trigger.

Last edited by Bart B.; November 27, 2012 at 06:20 PM.
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Old November 27, 2012, 06:16 PM   #7
Bart B.
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Erno86, all of us humans have a pulse that bounces our firearms as we hold them. When I finally got classified at the top with the best of them and sometimes outscoring them, I asked them about shooting between heartbeats. Their answers said to be pleased to hold your aim inside 2/3 moa in the prone position then squeeze the shot off inside that area. Even the "now" mental command to fire the shot at some perfect time will make you mash the trigger with enough force to bump your point of aim out of that tiny holding area. That shot will not go where you want it to.
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Old November 27, 2012, 06:33 PM   #8
old roper
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Here is one of Colorado better known gunsmith and if anyone is interest click on Firing Pins & Part and he's been fluting firing pins long time I've had few done on my hunting rifles.

http://www.gretanrifles.com/products/main.jsf
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Old November 27, 2012, 08:20 PM   #9
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When you get to the level that lock time starts to significantly affect your scores you likely won't need any opinions here on the subject.
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Old November 28, 2012, 01:17 AM   #10
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Here is something from the BR site

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...ease+lock+time
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Old November 28, 2012, 07:08 AM   #11
Bart B.
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Panfisher, there are folks on this web site's forums whose skills, knowldege, reasoning and performance in the shooting sports that equal the best on any other. They also equal the best of those who don't go on the internet and into forums. As your attributes in these areas improve, you'll believe that.
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Old November 28, 2012, 08:44 AM   #12
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One of the most important things in either rimfire or centerfire benchrest accuracy is the consistency of ignition. That means a strong, consistent, but not necessarily quick firing pin fall. It's probably more important to rimfire benchrest shooting, due to the priming method and variations in rim thickness, case metallurgy, and headspace variations.

For both venues, the rifle is sitting on a solid rest, both front and rear, so movement is not an issue. Conditions for the shot shouldn't change enough to make a difference between milliseconds of travel. It should be noted that rimfire rifles begin to move in recoil before bullets leave the barrel, due to the relatively slow velocity. Centerfire rifles don't tend to move much before the bullet leaves.

That said, position shooting requires the fastest lock time, to minimize the (continual) user-induced rifle movement after the sear breaks. Nobody can hold a rifle perfectly steady in any non-rested position. If the rifle is moving when benchrest shooting, it's usually a shooter technique problem instead of rifle and/or rest.
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Old November 28, 2012, 09:14 AM   #13
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Bart, I fully 110% believe you. I have a great deal of respect for 99% of the shooters on here, and long range/accuracy guys like yourself and Kraigway have forgotten more about competition than I will ever know. Just sort of seemed like the OP might be getting the cart ahead of the horse. Skill/practice first then tweaking the small things that could mean the difference between 1st and 4th place. No offense, slight or doubting os skills meant toward anyone.
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Old November 28, 2012, 10:46 AM   #14
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Panfisher, I think the OP is well astride a properly saddled horse (or on a seat next to a shooting bench) and there's not a cart anywhere. He's asking about one critical element of marksmanship that no more than 5% of all the rifle shooters on this planet probably understand. He's thinking about all the right stuff to make things good before the round's fired.
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Old November 28, 2012, 12:24 PM   #15
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I accept your gentle chiding with gratitude. In re-reading the OP does appear to be an experience shooter, I thought it had said he was beginning the benchrest game, sometimes the topics seem to run together. I understand most of the technical stuff, but like owning a Porsche I don't have the skills to use it to its full potential. Thank you for steering me into the clear.
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Old November 28, 2012, 12:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Picher
That said, position shooting requires the fastest lock time, to minimize the (continual) user-induced rifle movement after the sear breaks.
Not to be dense, but I'm not getting this.

It seems to suggest that a successful shot from a field position relies on timing the shot, rather than accepting one's wobble and having good followthrough. AFAIK, timing the shot is a pretty futile endeavor. To that end, seems to me that lock time ought not be an issue, even when position shooting. I understand this may be an area where theory and reality clash, though.
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Old November 28, 2012, 03:30 PM   #17
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Many of us who have shot considerable offhand rifle shots press the trigger as the crosshairs are within acceptable accuracy and moving toward the target center, then hold that level of press if they go past without the rifle firing. The process may be repeated once or twice for a shot, but if we feel unsteady due to lack of oxygen or tired muscles, we release the trigger and lower the rifle.

To the same extent we do the same when shooting from various field positions. The secret is to not jerk the trigger, but to press. When plinking and doing rapid firing, the press is faster and within the "wobble zone" that you mentioned.

Handgun shooting is entirely different and follows your "wobble zone" technique, pressing the trigger in a continuous movement, once the sights have settled into "the zone".
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Last edited by Picher; November 29, 2012 at 08:22 AM.
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Old November 28, 2012, 03:36 PM   #18
cw308
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Have been bench rest target shooting for many years, I'm 66, eyes & bones aren't as good as they use to be, but I just love target shooting. I reload my own , take in all your advise, just looking to improve. With my Rem. 700 LTR 308 Cal. 20" brl. 200 yards 3/4" groups on the average. Just wanted to know your feelings on lock time. using rear bag with a versa pod bi-pod.
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Old November 28, 2012, 07:26 PM   #19
Bart B.
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Mr. Borland, consider what it's like to shoot game afield with a matchlock rifle from the 15th century, a flintlock from the 17th century, and a centerfire rifle from the 19th century. Which one would you have to hold still the longest after you pulled the trigger in order to hit what you're shooting at?

Thinking about these issues may help you understand why lock time's important.

If not, sorry 'bout that. I'll try again with some other explanation.
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Old November 29, 2012, 09:06 AM   #20
cw308
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Bart B Thanks for understanding my post. Chris
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