The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 30, 2012, 08:50 PM   #1
RubenX
Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 69
What other .223 semi-auto to consider besides ARs and Mini-14s?

I want an AR but the one I want is too expensive ATM.
Still, I want something in the .223 caliber. I went to see the mini-14s at the gun shop. Looked good but IDK, the integrated mounts me no like much.

I almost put a mini-14 in lay away today but decided against my impulses (hard to do at the gun shop with gun in hand and credit card in the ready)... and came here to ask what else you guys would consider.

Again... any .223 semi-auto to consider besides Mini-14 and AR-15s?
__________________
HOWA 1500 30-06 , Savage Mark II 22lr
RubenX is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 09:02 PM   #2
K1500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2011
Posts: 158
Integrated Mini mounts are fine. If you go Mini, try to get a 580+ series. Saiga sporters are probably the cheapest.
K1500 is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 09:12 PM   #3
5.56RifleGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,135
What do you want to do with it? How much is the AR that you want?
5.56RifleGuy is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 09:18 PM   #4
RubenX
Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 69
@DLiller

I only want to shoot at the range. Maybe small game hunting in the future. But mostly for the range.

Also my son wants to shoot something bigger than the 22lr and currently, my next rifle caliber is 30-06, too much for the 80 pound boy.

The AR I want is about 2k + scope. So I'm gonna hold on that for now.
__________________
HOWA 1500 30-06 , Savage Mark II 22lr
RubenX is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 09:28 PM   #5
5.56RifleGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,135
Yeah, what model AR?

If you are looking for something just to fill the gap now, I don't know if it make sense to put money into a mini.

If you find something used you wont take as much of a beating if you intend to sell it once you have the funds for a new AR.

You can get a used AR of decent quality for less than a new mini. Heck I have one I'm selling for only $550.
5.56RifleGuy is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 09:29 PM   #6
jmortimer
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2010
Location: South West Riverside County California
Posts: 2,763
Mini 14
jmortimer is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 09:43 PM   #7
TMD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2011
Posts: 503
Saiga's .223/5.56 can be had for about $400-$450.
TMD is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 10:12 PM   #8
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Location: Mesquite Jungle Desert, West Texas, USA
Posts: 2,467
Get the mini14 if you want it, or the ar, both will suit your purpose

You'll probably get a better rifle on a 650 dollar mini.
__________________
Navin R. Johnson: "He hates these cans!!!! Stay away from the cans!!!!"
rickyrick is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 03:06 AM   #9
RubenX
Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 69
The Mini-14 I'm eyeballing is the tactical one, but with the synthetic stock as opposed to the pistil grip.

Ruger Cat# M-14/20GBCPC - Model# 5847 - List Price 939 and local store has it on 750 + tax
__________________
HOWA 1500 30-06 , Savage Mark II 22lr
RubenX is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 07:22 AM   #10
BillyJack3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2, 2012
Posts: 407
Get a basic AR (Quality AR) for $700 and build it up the way you want it over time. Then you have a strong, functioning AR that's modular enough that changing it up is always just a mouse click away.
BillyJack3 is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 07:28 AM   #11
FALPhil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 10, 2007
Location: Racoon City
Posts: 933
If you shop parts, you should be able to assemble a a quality AR for around $600, and you are not going to find a new Mini for that.

I would start with Palmetto State Armory. I was able to obtain one of their "blem" lowers for $60 plus shipping and transfer. From then on, it was wait for the sales.

Receiver + shipping + transfer = $90
BCG + LPK + shipping = $160
Premium Mid Upper + shipping = $315
Milspec collapsable stock kit at the gun show = $40

I did all this with new parts. If I had been willing to shop the equipment exchages on the various gun boards, I could probably have brought the price down to around $500.

You will still need a rear sight, but there are some viable options out there for around $25.

Don't count the AR out. I had one for about 10 years before I traded it in on my first AR. I wish I hadn't wasted that time.
FALPhil is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 08:10 AM   #12
Amsdorf
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2011
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Posts: 849
Here's another great 5.56 semi-auto option to consider...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBspm...feature=vmdshb
Amsdorf is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 11:44 AM   #13
K1500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2011
Posts: 158
Despite the fact that every Mini thread turns into a bashfest from many of the AR fans, there is nothing wrong with a Mini, especially the new tactical version.
K1500 is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 12:08 PM   #14
MarkCO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 744
If your heart is set on an AR variant but you can't get your dream one now, I would consider the Kel-Tec SU16 series. They are light, take AR mags, basically a piston design that is relaible and cheap. I've seen them go in the $350 to $450 range.

The Mossberg MVP is a bolt gun, but takes the AR mags.
__________________
Good Shooting, MarkCO
www.CarbonArms.us
MarkCO is online now  
Old December 1, 2012, 01:16 PM   #15
sailskidrive
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2008
Posts: 726
Consider the SCAR 16 or SIG 551....
sailskidrive is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 01:46 PM   #16
Tengu01
Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 37
May want to look into Saiga 5.56 / .223 . Plenty accurate , and reliable as hell . Well worth the $$$ , and fun to shoot .
__________________
"He is best who is trained in the severest schools."
Tengu01 is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 02:25 PM   #17
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 778
Quote:
Receiver + shipping + transfer = $90
BCG + LPK + shipping = $160
Premium Mid Upper + shipping = $315
Milspec collapsable stock kit at the gun show = $40
after shopping around the internet for about 5 weeks I am very suspicious of one's ability to pay so little nowadays.
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 02:52 PM   #18
Quentin2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2009
Location: NorthWest USA
Posts: 1,637
Quote:
after shopping around the internet for about 5 weeks I am very suspicious of one's ability to pay so little nowadays.
I agree, especially if you're looking for good components. I was able to buy a PSA milspec upper with handguards, charging handle and shipping for around the quoted $315 but the other components tended to price higher.

Last edited by Quentin2; December 1, 2012 at 03:00 PM.
Quentin2 is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 03:24 PM   #19
arizona98tj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 975
Quote:
after shopping around the internet for about 5 weeks I am very suspicious of one's ability to pay so little nowadays.
Agreed. And there seems to be somewhat of a shortage for some of the components necessary to assemble it.

You want a decent AR-15 for the money....get a Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport. An accurate and reliable shooter with plenty of opportunities to add to it later on, if that is the direction you want to go.
__________________
stu-offroad.com
Largest Jeep TJ project site on the web!
(now with guns)
arizona98tj is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 04:34 PM   #20
FALPhil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 10, 2007
Location: Racoon City
Posts: 933
Quote:
after shopping around the internet for about 5 weeks I am very suspicious of one's ability to pay so little nowadays.
Well, it was about 6 months ago...
FALPhil is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 04:45 PM   #21
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Location: Mesquite Jungle Desert, West Texas, USA
Posts: 2,467
I too have my doubts about the mythical 600 dollar AR.

I'm sure they exist, I'm sure you can piece them together for that much or less. Can you take one home today, probably not. I see tons of 1000 dollar and up ones.

The mini14 you can take it out of the box and go shoot, or add a scope.

The ranch rifle can be turned into the tactical model later and save 100bucks right now.

I do feel that the tactical model should be called the "pro varminter" instead of tactical. The ranch would have benefitted greatly by having a threaded muzzle, my only real complaint.
__________________
Navin R. Johnson: "He hates these cans!!!! Stay away from the cans!!!!"
rickyrick is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 07:16 PM   #22
FALPhil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 10, 2007
Location: Racoon City
Posts: 933
Hear is a thread by a guy that did it for less than $600 recently:
http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...d.php?t=263854

Quote:
After a few laughs the discussion turned to can you build (or assemble for all you assembly Nazis) a quality, AR ready to shoot, for $600.00 or less. ARs parts/kits plus receivers can be had close to $600.00, but tax, transfer fee, background check fee, shipping will put you over. Then a rear sight puts you well over.

So the bet was made and I accepted the challenge to build a completely functioning AR for >= $600.00.

RULES:
This must include all tax, shipping, transfer fees, back ground checks, and so on. The AR cannot be built from used parts and or "once in a lifetime deal" or your neighbors out of work and sells you his AR for food money and so on. You cannot use gift certificates to lower price, but standard coupons can be used. The AR must be complete (have sights, hand guard and stock as example) and assembled with quality parts from known suppliers. AR must hold a 5 shot, offhand, minute of "death" group with standard 55 gr ammo. Poor quality or non functioning parts cannot be replaced with new, non purchased, parts. The rifle cannot FTE or FTF regularly.
FALPhil is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 09:38 PM   #23
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Location: Mesquite Jungle Desert, West Texas, USA
Posts: 2,467
Ok, the guy did pull it off with a couple of deals and mix matched parts that even he doubted until he had them in hand.

I read the thread up until he stated that in 200 rds he got acceptable groups. I will finish the thread tomorrow.

The thing I found most striking that the ar snobbery becomes canibalistic among the AR owners. Quite insightful I think and good for some laughs.

The thread I think, makes the case better for the mini14. Spend 650 and get a known good rifle or throw together 586$ worth of questionable parts and hope for the best.

To me, the mini is hands down the best 650ish rifle new in box. I do believe that it is possible to obtain an AR for near mini price, but you won't bring it home today.
__________________
Navin R. Johnson: "He hates these cans!!!! Stay away from the cans!!!!"
rickyrick is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 11:46 PM   #24
barnbwt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2012
Posts: 704
VZ58 in .223/5.56

TCB
__________________
"I don't believe that the men of the distant past were any wiser than we are today. But it does seem that their science and technology were able to accomplish much grander things."
-- Alex Rosewater
barnbwt is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 11:53 PM   #25
5.56RifleGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,135
"I do believe that it is possible to obtain an AR for near mini price, but you won't bring it home today."

I guess if you exclude the entire used rifle market.

Nothing really wrong with the mini.

There are a lot of other 223 rifles out there also though.

AR 180s are really cool. The B models take AR mags. They sell for $600 to $800. The Originals usually go for $900 to $1500.

You can get Aks chambered in 223 if you would like. The prices on those are all over the place.

There is a VZ-58 chambered in 223. I think those are around $900.

There are Galil rifles also. A clone will be from $500 to $700. The real ones are $2500 and up.

FNC are pretty cool, but they are usually $3000 and up.

Hk 93 rifles are fun to shoot, the originals selling for around $3000, and the clones selling at about $500.

If you want to spend $11,000, you can have your very own semi auto Famas.

I think someone mentioned it, but Keltec makes a 223 rifle also. I think those are around $500 now a days.

You can get a nice Valmet in various models from $1000 and up.

The Robinson armament XCR and M96 are cool rifles. The M96 is styled like the Stoner 63 rifle.

Sig has the 551 and 556. and The 550, but I think the 550s trade around $8000-$10000 now.

There is also the Steyr Aug. The new ones are running about $2000 and the older ones somewhere from $2500 to $3000

The Scar 16 and FS 2000 are FNs recent offerings.

You could get an AR 70 by Beretta. I think they are around $2000 now if you look hard.

I can't think of anything else.

Did I miss any?

Last edited by 5.56RifleGuy; December 1, 2012 at 11:59 PM.
5.56RifleGuy is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12816 seconds with 9 queries