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Old December 3, 2012, 08:45 PM   #1
CMGibson
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Shooting Rifle Without Sights?

Im interested in the Mossberg Predator 223. It looks like they come with a scope and no front sight. I am not used to scopes. My question is can a rifle be accurate shooting without the sight? If so to what range?
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Old December 3, 2012, 08:51 PM   #2
chris in va
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Define 'accurate'. The Predator is probably for varmint/coyote control and not so much for range use. In that regard it'll be a lot easier to shoot accurately than using standard iron sights.
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Old December 3, 2012, 08:58 PM   #3
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Depends what you're definition of accuracy is, and how much you're willing to practice. Initially, can you hit a paper plate at 25 yards 75% of the time, sure. Can you hit a paper plate at 50... maybe a few times. With practice, maybe better.

You might be able to fit a set of round barrel, muzzle loader sights to the rifle with epoxy, or have some inexpensive sights adapted or fit by a gunsmith. Look at muzzle loader, shotgun and rifle sights in the Brownell's website... see if you come across something with potential, or visit a gunsmith and see if they'll take pity on you.
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Old December 3, 2012, 09:39 PM   #4
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Try the scope out, you might like it. Reviews are good, its probably pretty accurate once the scope is zeroed.

A good reflex sight is easier to shoot than using iron sights. My Burris Fastfire III feels really good on a rifle. Its as simple as putting the little red dot where you want the shot to be. If I did not like using a scope, I would have a Burris Fastfire III on it.
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Old December 4, 2012, 01:01 AM   #5
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Years ago I tried shooting my cousins Mini 14 that had a scope on it. I could not hardly find the target with it. Since then I have never tried it again. Of course if I buy the rifle I will try it again but just wondered how much the front site really makes a difference lets say within 100 yard range.
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Old December 4, 2012, 01:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Years ago I tried shooting my cousins Mini 14 that had a scope on it. I could not hardly find the target with it. Since then I have never tried it again. Of course if I buy the rifle I will try it again but just wondered how much the front site really makes a difference lets say within 100 yard range.
Accuracy is going to be really poor without some sort of sighting system, so you'll want to figure out something. If you had a hard time finding your target through a scope before it could have been the scope was too high a power for what you were doing, that it was set improperly to give you good eye relief, or any number of different issues. I'd definitely give it another go with something that's properly selected for the intended use and then properly mounted to the gun.
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Old December 4, 2012, 03:24 AM   #7
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What magnification scope was your cousin using?

High magnification normally means narrow field of view. Lower magnification normally means wider field of view.

You could always go with a variable power scope; find targets in low mag, wide view, then raise magnification for the shot.

You could also probably mount some other optic, such as a reflex sight or holographic.

Just pointing the rifle and firing, without referencing sights, normally isn't taught for anything beyond 20ish yards.
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Old December 4, 2012, 05:04 AM   #8
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Thanks guys.
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Old December 4, 2012, 05:42 AM   #9
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cmgibson:

I understand when something does not work out it can be frustrating.For now,it seemas a scope has not worked out for you.I am not going to argue with your reality.I am going to make some suggestions.If you want iron sights,have some mounted and use them.Most smiths would be happy to do it for you.
Comes down to it though,most folks use a scope.Think about this,if your face,your eye,is not at the right place behind iron sights,right,left,high,low,can you see through them and aim?No.If your eye is not behind the sight in the right place,you wont get a sight picture.

A scope is the same that way.

It is a fit thing.The rifle and scope setup can usually be tuned.Higher or lower rings,movng the scope back or forward,it can be tuned in.Once you get the scope positioned right,if you bring the rifle to your face the same each time,Literally,you should be able to mount the rifle with your eyes closed,open both eyes,and be looking right through the big bright window of your scope.I suggest you try several rifles in the racks of a gun store or friends rifles till you find one that does that for you,so you know what you are looking at,then you just set your rifle/scope up to fit you.
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Old December 4, 2012, 07:45 AM   #10
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you could also try a dot scope or other 1X type scope... these are so easy to use, you can shoot through them with both eyes open if you wanted ( it's normally more accurate to use one eye, but you get the idea... )
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Old December 4, 2012, 10:02 AM   #11
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Like anything, there are good scopes and bad ones. Invest $100-200 in a decent scope and you will like it. If you spend $20 on an airgun scope, you will hate it.
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Old December 4, 2012, 10:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Years ago I tried shooting my cousins Mini 14 that had a scope on it. I could not hardly find the target with it. Since then I have never tried it again. Of course if I buy the rifle I will try it again but just wondered how much the front site really makes a difference lets say within 100 yard range.
Why not give it another try?

Seriously, if you had a problem seeing the target with the rifle mounted, there were probably a couple of things wrong.

If the scope is not positioned correctly, when you mount the rifle you will see a very small bright spot or perhaps nothing at all.

When you move your head back and forth in line with the stock, you will find a spot where the picture "blooms." That is where your eye relief comes into play. If you do not have that full picture when you hold the rifle, the eye relief is most likely not set correctly.

If you were using a variable power scope with the magnification cranked up, that will cause problems seeing the target as well.

I am betting a little homework on your part with an experienced scope shooter will pay off handsomely.

I like both irons and scopes. You just need a little coaching with the scope and you will like them also.
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Old December 4, 2012, 10:36 AM   #13
Brian Pfleuger
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I'd be willing to bet that you'd be far more accurate with a scope you suck at using than you would be with a gun with no sights.
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Old December 4, 2012, 12:32 PM   #14
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+1

exhibition shooters practice for years and sometimes go through 50,000-100,000(up to $40,000) rounds developing a technique like firing without sights and they rarely take that beyond 25 yards. if you are looking to do anything with that rifle outside of a indoor range then you will need sights of some sort or another.
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Old December 4, 2012, 02:30 PM   #15
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It's hard enough to shoot accurately with a scope or open sights. Don't even try with no sights. The Mossberg predator 223 is a nice rifle. Learn to shoot with the scope & enjoy the set up. Be Safe Chris
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Old December 4, 2012, 03:30 PM   #16
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If you like the rifle, but don't want to scope it, have iron sights installed by a gunsmith. It isn't that expensive. About the same cost as a budget scope and a set of mounts, maybe less.
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Old December 4, 2012, 04:33 PM   #17
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That rifle is remarkably accurate, from all the rags Ive read through.
My advice is to give the scoped rifle a try. If you not willing to then buy a rifle with iron sights already on it. In my experience of shooting game at yardage past 100 or yds is that the front sight covers too much of the animal, whereas a scopes magnified image helps me to pick a spot to hit. Aim small Miss small
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Old December 4, 2012, 05:10 PM   #18
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If you can escape the attention of the RSO, you would have to see where the bullet was hitting, and walk the rifle up or down, to achieve the desired point of impact.

Acccurate? Forgetaboutit!!!

Last edited by Erno86; December 4, 2012 at 05:16 PM.
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Old December 5, 2012, 04:14 PM   #19
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I will agree with others that the scope you tried years ago was not set-up in a way that was compatible with your body. Setting up the scope is the hard part of shooting with a scope. IF you are using a cheap scope there is usually very little leeway in the "eye relief". If the scope has four inches of eye relief you can't see much of anything if your eye is 5 inches away. Since everyone holds the rifle a little differently and is a little different size, if it isn't set-up specific to you it won't work.

Give it another try. Adding iron sights isn't cheap, but it also isn't ungodly expensive.
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Old December 5, 2012, 08:54 PM   #20
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Just sac up and learn how to use the scope.
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Old December 6, 2012, 12:30 AM   #21
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Talking about rifles, clips, and sights- Man how I wish the Savage Hog Hunter and the Mossberg MVP Predator would marry up and produce offspring. That, I believe, would be a fantastic combination.
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