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Old November 27, 2012, 10:00 PM   #1
Constantine
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What do you guys do when your CCW malfunctions?

Do you swap it out with the next gun you're adequate with?

Do you not carry it until and X amount of rounds are run through it to ensure it's good to go?

I ask because I'm somewhat picky when it comes to my CCW handgun which in turn is my nightstand gun.

When I get a malfunction of any kind that is NOT user error. I either run a few hundred rounds down range. Various ammo or swap out that carry gun for my next runner up until I can run the ammo through the one that just malfunctioned.

I ask because I just had 3 stove pipes in my Glock 19 4th Gen. Started happening on my last round of every magazine I had towards the end of my range session. Also around this same time..even with a perfect 100% & 100% tight grip and very well placed shots at 7-10 yards. The brass was ejecting at my face quite frequently.


Something must of happened because I have never had a malfunction with this Glock since the trigger has been set back to factory. (that's a whole other story that's irrelevant) So....1,000rds or so in total. 500 of which has been with the factory trigger without a problem up until now.



It's on the trial bench now. Ran out of ammo at the range to run a few hundred rounds with it to ensure my trust.

Also, ALL my guns are detailed and cleaned and lubed with TW-25 after ANY amount of rounds fired from it. 7 into a barrel test firing or 500 downrange in one session. They all get cleaned right when I get home. Call me OCD.








I've replaced my Glock 19 Gen 4 now with my good old trusty SIG P226 which has seen a lot....



So what do you guys do?
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Old November 27, 2012, 10:15 PM   #2
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I have yet to have that happen and my CCW is about 25 years old. It is a S&W J-frame.

If it had a malfunction I dont know what I would do... may be have a smith check it out?

I like that you cant limp wrist a revolver.

How ever my wife carries a Sig P238 that she loves. Early on it had a lot of problems and took 3 trips to sig and then finally a trip to a local gun smith to get it to work.

I still dont trust it but I figure she loves it and will actually carry it. I have tried to get her to carry other guns but she says its this gun or nothing... Its been very good since the trip to the smith but its hard for me to trust it.
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Old November 27, 2012, 10:20 PM   #3
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Im with Deja Vu. I carry a 638 J Frame and thats one of the biggest reasons. I have in the past tried new carry pistols and have had a couple of malfunctions and when I did that pistol came all the way out of rotation. I know mechanical things mess up and there are alot of variables like ammo, bad mag...etc but once it happens its just something I personally dont feel comfortable with anymore. If I ever needed to use it the last thing I want going through my head id " I hope this thing works"...lol thats why I have stayed with the snubbie. I have never had a revolver break or malfunction on me yet.
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Old November 27, 2012, 10:52 PM   #4
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I posted this on another thread where it was stated by an individual that he couldn't believe someone would carry something that wasn't 100 percent reliable........he said

"But 99% reliability out of a dedicated-by-design ccw is far short of good, I hope it improves for you."

I said.....

Everything operates at 100 percent....until it doesn't. Review QC statistical analysis. Why do manufacturers have service departments? Why bother with a warranty?
Ever hear the words "defect in workmanship or material"? Metal fatigue?
Name a handgun that is "100 percent reliable" and I'll find an exact model that isn't.

Multiple 9s are possible. High Reliability sure. 100 percent operability 100 percent of the time, no.
Haven't you seen in the movies where the gun "jams" and becomes a non aerodynamic projectile?

Seriously you are always one round away from failure. There are a few reasons to carry a back up handgun. One is failure which in and of itself has multiple possible manifestations.

To answer your question. I currently have five handguns with over 500 consecutive rounds through them with zero failures. This could have been out of the box or 500 rounds following 200 with the 201 being a failure to operate, repair, start over.
When ever I go to the range I rotate taking one of these "qualified" handguns along and shoot three magazines or five cylinders with first range ammunition and finishing with at least one magazine or cylinder with my PD round.

If said handgun in the rotation ever exhibits "issues" it comes out of rotation is repaired and goes through qualification. It may be awhile before it gets back in the queue unless I have the time and inclination to push the issue. That is to say I'm typically comfortable carrying any of the qualified entities.

I have three additional semi autos being qualified in various stages (I keep records) and the next one going to the range for routine exercise is a S&w M&P 340 J Frame. The prior was a Kahr PM9.
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Old November 27, 2012, 10:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
I ask because I just had 3 stove pipes in my Glock 19 4th Gen. Started happening on my last round of every magazine I had towards the end of my range session.
I'm not a major Glock fan... owned a few, sold them. But, considering Glock's warranty is for life, if I still had one, I'd send it back to Glock. If it still was a cause of grief, I'd send it back again with the admonition that if it didn't run for a trouble-free 200 rds, send me a new gun or a refund.

My P7M8 and Seecamp have never had a malfunction in nearly 20 years of regular carry. My CZ75B SA has yet to malfunction in 3 years of semi-regular use. If it's one of my 1911s or BHPs, which are a bit more finely tuned, sometimes ammo sensitive and rarely CC'd, I simply determine and correct the issue myself.

Cheers,
C
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:07 PM   #6
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I think it depends on the malfunction. If it was something that I thought could have been ammo-induced, I would see if it happened again in that range trip. If it didn't, I would continue carrying it, but be on the lookout, and probably visit the range again with more ammo as soon as possible. If it got through the next 200 rounds, hopefully the next day or so, I'd call it good to go.

If the problem happened more than once, it would get shelved until I could figure it out. At that point, regardless of the cause, it would need to go 200 rounds in a row without any issue, including a few mags of whatever ammo I'd be carrying.

I carry a spare magazine, and I train for malfunction clearing. I think that is the best you can do.

I should also add I have never experienced any centerfire malfunction with any gun that was not ammo-induced, and those only during my learning period of reloading (high primers). Since then, factory or reloads, I have never had any problem. But I don't shoot cheap guns.
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
I should also add I have never experienced any centerfire malfunction with any gun that was not ammo-induced, and those only during my learning period.
Amazing.
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:29 PM   #8
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Clear the malfunction and drive on!!
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:32 PM   #9
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I carry a revolver. It just works.
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:44 PM   #10
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I got spooked when my EDC had a hiccup

My normal carry is a walther PPS. I've got a couple of them now actually but the first one I bought had a malfunction at the range after a couple months of carry and occasional range practice. I was able to reproduce the problem at home dry firing and it was a BIGGIE, flawed trigger bar that had to be replaced. It rattled my confidence in the gun for many hundreds of rounds.

If in a normal range session I get the very rare malfunction but cannot reproduce it with any of my mags and my carry ammo I just have to let it go. It's a mechanical device and a failure rate of less then .1% is within my tolerance.

I used to be maniacal about cleaning my guns after any shooting but now with my carry guns I actually choose to not clean them after a light practice because I know the condition of the gun and the fact that it's working in that state. After I take it apart and lube it I no longer "know" that it is in the same condition and haven't fired in that state so I think I'm better off with that slight amount of fouling but the peace of mind that the last time I pulled the trigger it went bang and I haven't changed anything since.
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:58 PM   #11
Mosin44az
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Your case describes a serious situation for a defense gun. Send to Glock if you can't figure it out quickly. Aren't stovepipes often caused by recoil spring issues? Particularly if it's happening with every magazine.

But yes if I had something like that happen, it's off duty until I can trust it again, or it's gone.
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Old November 28, 2012, 12:43 AM   #12
Constantine
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Quote:
But yes if I had something like that happen, it's off duty until I can trust it again, or it's gone.
+1

Acceptable for a range gun. Unacceptable for a defense gun.

I read all the other responses. I value them all.

Revolver guys, nice. I can't bring myself to a main carry being a revolver, more power to you!

I just had to change out from my SIG P226...I don't have a good holster for it in order to carry IWB @ 4:00. All I have are OWB holsters.

So I'm carrying the SIG 1911...I'm not fond of 1911's for carry but that's the next runner up with accuracy and such. Plus it's so darn thin compared to the Glock 21 which is right behind it.

Haven't shot the PPQ enough times in order to go with that one.




As for the Glock 19..It's my only Glock to ever really malfunction like that. I'm somewhat shocked. No, I'm not a fanboy. I was issued a Glock and always shot them though. For serious defense they've always been my #1. As an enthusiast, they're far from my #1. If that makes sense to you all. I'm sure it does. Just can't put the words together well enough.

So I'll see whats happening with this sucker. Put 300rds through it afterwards and maybe it'll be my main CCW again.
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Old November 28, 2012, 01:16 AM   #13
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OP's Question: What do you guys do when your CCW malfunctions?

Quote:
Do you swap it out with the next gun you're adequate with?

Do you not carry it until and X amount of rounds are run through it to ensure it's good to go?
Yes, without a doubt. Something has to be done, and you mentioned two possibilities(one being a temporary solution). As for the permanent solution: one needs to be confident too, so it might take more than putting a bunch of rounds thru it after the issue. Using the same ammo that is working can add confidence and closure, but cleaning & disassembly are also examples of other numerous possibilities.
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Old November 28, 2012, 04:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
I used to be maniacal about cleaning my guns after any shooting but now with my carry guns I actually choose to not clean them after a light practice because I know the condition of the gun and the fact that it's working in that state. After I take it apart and lube it I no longer "know" that it is in the same condition and haven't fired in that state so I think I'm better off with that slight amount of fouling but the peace of mind that the last time I pulled the trigger it went bang and I haven't changed anything since
Same here. I clean the barrel a few strokes reload and that's it.
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Old November 28, 2012, 05:50 AM   #15
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When any carry gun of mine malfunctions, it's gone. I have an extremely low tolerance for things that don't work as they should. Guns being foremost among those things. After a malfunction occurs you can spend all day saying "well maybe it was this or maybe it was that" but to me if it malfunctioned once, it will do it again....I really don't care what the reason is. My Glock has never malfunctioned in over 8000 rounds, and neither has my 226.
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Old November 28, 2012, 07:58 AM   #16
loose_holster_dan
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i absolutely would switch it out. probably permanently. i had the same problem with my glock 19. it ended up being an overly strong mag spring, but i never trusted the gun again. sold it within a couple months.
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Old November 28, 2012, 08:11 AM   #17
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As others have said it depends on the malfunction. If it happens during the first magazine through the gun, as has happened to me, I attribute it to new gun hiccups. If it starts happening after some hundreds of rounds have been put through the gun, or never stopped, then I worry. I like to have ~ 300 trouble free rounds through a gun before I carry it. I've sent guns back to factory for issues, had them return fine, and gone on to carry them after they passed that 300 rounds. I've also sold guns that have had issues as I just didn't want to deal with them. I go with my gut.

One thing I have learned: replacing a gun that is known to be reliable with another gun that is "new and cool" is just plain dumb (and I've done it). Reliability is king.
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Old November 28, 2012, 08:50 AM   #18
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Don't forget that the ammo could also be to blame if it isn't your carry ammo.

I'm a revolver guy. My one problem revolver was my hiking/backpacking carry gun which started giving light primer strikes. Rather than dumping the gun I diagnosed and fixed what was causing the problem. It's not rocket science.
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Old November 28, 2012, 08:55 AM   #19
ScotchMan
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Quote:
Quote:
I should also add I have never experienced any centerfire malfunction with any gun that was not ammo-induced, and those only during my learning period.
Quote:
Amazing.
Not sure what your comment is intended to convey. My point was that guns shouldn't really be malfunctioning a lot, and that a malfunction every once in a while in a carry gun isn't really ok. Not that anyone said it was, but mine is another data point to consider.

Also, you misquoted me.
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Old November 28, 2012, 10:47 AM   #20
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If your CCW malfunctions at the wrong time, don't worry - you'll still have plenty of ammo to throw.........................

In the back of your shorts, from soiling them.



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Old November 28, 2012, 11:31 AM   #21
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I have a coworker who went shooting for the first time this past week. His sister is in the FBI so she brought her duty glock as well as a few other for him to try. The glock 23 or 27, it was chambered in 40 and he didn't remember the model #, had just got service by their armorer. Midway thru the second magazine, the gun locked up completely. Could even move the slide in order to field strip it. She said she was glad it happened at the range instead but still, that would be enough to make me request a new piece. No bueno!!!!
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Old November 28, 2012, 12:33 PM   #22
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I think it depends on frequency and specifically what's causing the malfunction. I was having some infrequent feeding issues that turned out to be from the mags I was using (Chip McCormmick).

Even if your gun has never malfunctioned, you should still practice how to clear them, regardless imo. Guns are machines and every machine will eventually have a problem some point.
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Old November 28, 2012, 12:42 PM   #23
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I must say that economy store bought ammo in an auto would give me the jitters. I see that Wally ammo fail in more instances. It's the reason I even reload 9mm.
It will make you look dumb at the range or dead in the street. If you care enough to send the very best, reload. I'm not suggesting burning hundreds of two bucks a round ammo during familiarization, but if you are doing reliability testing, you must use the complete package. Hornady among others sell component bullets affordable enough for lengthy evaluations without a factory sponsorship. I launch XTPs at everything I shoot with a pistol bullet.
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Old November 28, 2012, 12:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
I must say that economy store bought ammo in an auto would give me the jitters. I see that Wally ammo fail in more instances. It's the reason I even reload 9mm.
It will make you look dumb at the range or dead in the street. If you care enough to send the very best, reload. I'm not suggesting burning hundreds of two bucks a round ammo during familiarization, but if you are doing reliability testing, you must use the complete package. Hornady among others sell component bullets affordable enough for lengthy evaluations without a factory sponsorship. I launch XTPs at everything I shoot with a pistol bullet.
Probably a good thing then that most people would recommend against using bargain ammo for defense.

As a note, I buy a ton of Federal Champion at Wally World. Although it is on the lighter side, I have never had an issue with it at the range.
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Old November 28, 2012, 01:04 PM   #25
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I would change guns temporarily, until I'd determined what the problem was. I've had malfunctions caused by broken parts, worn parts, bad ammo, etc., and if I can determine what caused the problem I'll fix it and carry on.
The vast majority of malfunctions that I have had were undetermined as to cause, since they're not chronic. If I had three similar failures in 100 rounds, I'd definitely have to determine what was causing it, and fix it. Three failures in 1000 rounds would concern me, too. I have gone 1000 rounds without failure many, many times, but don't know if I've ever gone 2000 rounds, in any gun with that many rounds through it, without at least one failure of some kind. I don't think there's any way to isolate, diagnose and repair random failures that occur every 1000-1500 rounds; there are just too many variables.
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