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Old November 27, 2012, 08:56 PM   #26
Edward429451
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Back to the wall booth on the side. Sometimes their busy and have no booths open in which case I at least sit facing the entrance. Situational awareness is everything in public and very easy to make a constant habit without being obsessive. I believe these types of tragedies will only increase in the future with as nutty as people are lately, so it's only good sense to pay attention when in public.
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Old November 27, 2012, 09:04 PM   #27
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Back to the wall booth on the side. Sometimes their busy and have no booths open in which case I at least sit facing the entrance. Situational awareness is everything in public and very easy to make a constant habit without being obsessive. I believe these types of tragedies will only increase in the future with as nutty as people are lately, so it's only good sense to pay attention when in public.
Ditto on that. But me must still go out and live our lives regardless and not let them bring us down.
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Old November 28, 2012, 01:33 PM   #28
Kevin Rohrer
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I try sitting away from any entrances with my back to a wall, and getting a look at everyone entering the room I am in.

As for movie theaters, the one I goto only has one entrance and one exit (both in my forward arc of view). I sit where I get the best view of the picture, which is not tactically sound, but it's a compromise I choose to make.

Unfortunately, my job prevents me from egressing prior to contact.

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Old November 28, 2012, 03:32 PM   #29
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Manta, you often cite the troubles in Ireland as being the end all be all of experiencing a turbulent existence and claim that people here couldn't have handled it.

As I have pointed out to you before, the rates of violence in Ireland during the troubles(over a decade ago) are roughly the same or less than the nominal rates of violence here in the US for many locales(past and present). People acknowledge that violent crime happens and try to be prepared, rather than


Its a example of people coming into a bar in this case and shooting. I am using N Ireland as a example because that's were i live that seems logical to me. Maybe you would like me google a similar example form some other country. My point no one that i know worried about where they sat or watched the door to see who was coming in.

As i said if i worried about where i sat when going out socialising and having a meal i would stay in the house.


Quote:
are roughly the same or less than the nominal rates of violence here in the US for many locales
That statement goes against the posts i have seen on how violent crime is low in America compared to the UK.


Quote:
(over a decade ago)


Police at the scene of David Black's death on the M1 motorway in Northern Ireland.


Dissident republicans are believed to have shot dead a Northern Ireland prison officer in a motorway ambush.


The death of a 25-year-old police officer in a car bomb blast has brought tragedy to Omagh, Northern Ireland Chief Constable Matt Baggott has said.

He paid tribute to "modern day hero" Constable Ronan Kerr, a new Catholic recruit, killed outside his home.


PS Its not over a decade for some.

Last edited by manta49; November 28, 2012 at 05:27 PM.
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Old November 28, 2012, 03:42 PM   #30
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I suffer from PTSD. Some may call me paranoid but I would rather be called that than be called dead.

It is not always possible to pick the table where you want to sit but I make sure that where ever I have a commanding view of the restaurant. My first choice is to have a wall behind me or somewhere where it is impossible for someone to enter without me seeing them. Force of habit, I "case" the other people in the restaurant before being seated at a table. If I don't like what I see, I ask for another table and don't mind waiting.

I am far-sighted and sit within the last two to three rows of the movie theater but I always arrive early so I can sit in the middle so I have access to both entry doors and the two emergency exits.

And just in case you're wondering, I never leave my house without a gun attached to my body. I can't cover every contingency but I do my best. And my good buddy is a retired cop and our wives are good friends so we dine out a lot together. We cover each others back and at some places, even discuss a plan in the event something should go horribly wrong.
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Old November 28, 2012, 05:12 PM   #31
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I simply ask for the booth closest to the buffet.
Food is more likely to kill me rather than a shooter.
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Old November 28, 2012, 10:03 PM   #32
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After nearly a quarter century together Mrs.hogdogs still forgets she doesn't get to decide where her bottom will warm until I decide...

as courtesy, I usually never walk in front of her so when a hostess begins to walk us to our table or booth, wifey is usually in front of me as walk paths are often too narrow for a comfortable side by side stroll...

I want my back to a wall and eyes on at least the main entrance... If secondary entrances are available I really like to be able to see them too... The kitchen door is not quite as critical to my seating decision. If I do not like the location the hostess chooses, I do not mind scanning for a better (to me) seat and requesting it... If wifey inadvertently chooses my "tactical" seating choice, she just has to hop up and move or scoot over so I can sit on the same side.
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Old November 29, 2012, 07:26 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by seaman
The handgun must be appropriate to the task: very accurate, i.e. not a M442 snubby when a M22-4 will do a better job.
How do you get the bad guys to let you know when you're going to have time to get an M22-4 out of your holster instead of using an M442 snubby fired from in your pocket? Do they send you email or something?
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Old November 29, 2012, 08:36 AM   #34
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According to the World Health Organization, it is much more likely that the greatest threat comes from what is on your plate rather than where in the restaurant your plate happens to be.

I know what you all are thinking; the WHO is so pro-gun that they probably skewed the results to make gun deaths seem less prevalent...

I sit far away from the door because I live in New England. This time of year it gets pretty cold and I don't like the draft every time someone comes through the door.

I like booths because they are more comfortable and I don't like being in the flow of traffic of other diners and servers.

I don't worry about cars coming through the side of the building, malicious food poisoning, or someone shooting the place up. These events have a disproportionate mental impact because their terribleness outweighs their improbability.

Besides, trying to predict the motivation and methods of a madman is futile. For all we know, the incident could begin with the villain shooting those he thinks most able to flee.
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Old November 29, 2012, 09:33 AM   #35
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Ahoy 45 auto:

"How do you get the bad guys to let you know when you're going to have time to get an M22-4 out of your holster instead of using an M442 snubby fired from in your pocket? Do they send you email or something? " [45 auto]

Email....no. Snubby fired from pocket...possible from jacket pocket, but from pant pocket it is difficult, very loose pants required.

Assuming the assailant was within 10 feet I would draw and fire my IWB snubby, i.e. a M396NG. And I draw and fire quicker than most folks can blink.

But you missed the point, I would not use a M442 against a perp/s 30 feet or more out ... that's when I would prefer the M22-4.

Usually carry a primary and 2 New York reloads, and what comes out first is what the situation demands.

"...I live in New England." [.22lr]

Well I live in Michigan, and my favorite restaurant is in Detroit. Great food.

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Old November 29, 2012, 09:49 AM   #36
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Along the perimeter of the room.
I try not to put my back to the door.
If I can pick the table I also like to sit where I can see my parked vehicle out a window if that is possible.
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Old November 29, 2012, 01:12 PM   #37
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According to the World Health Organization, it is much more likely that the greatest threat comes from what is on your plate rather than where in the restaurant your plate happens to be.
I would agree food poisoning or choking on your food or driving to the restaurant is much more likely to kill you than someone coming in and starting shooting at you. PS is America turning into a nation that risk averse that they can't go to the restaurant toilet shower sit in there own house etc without worrying if someone is going to shoot them.

Last edited by manta49; November 29, 2012 at 02:03 PM.
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Old November 29, 2012, 01:38 PM   #38
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I would agree food poisoning is much more likely to kill you than someone coming in and starting shooting at you.
I would say the chances of you getting a plate of food that will kill you is greater than the chances of someone coming in and starting to shoot.

However, all else being equal.....it is easier to fight off a bout of food poisoning than a couple of bullet wounds.
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Old November 30, 2012, 10:19 AM   #39
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I never pay any attention to which seat I get, it doesn't matter.
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Old November 30, 2012, 10:37 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by manta 49
PS is America turning into a nation that risk averse that they can't go to the restaurant toilet shower sit in there own house etc without worrying if someone is going to shoot them.
You're talking to a forum of firearms enthusiasts. For better or worse, the thoughts/opinions represented in this thread do not represent the vast majority of Americans, most of whom never consider the "tactical" aspects of anything in their lives. The key is "Americans". We are free to make that choice and no one else has to like it. Freedom. It sure beats.... everywhere else... in the world.

Stop by an auto racing forum. Lots of those guys have roll-cages and 5-point racing harnesses in their street cars. Technically, what they're doing is a lot more likely to save their lives than "tactically" picking where you might sit in a restaurant.

We're "gun people". We do tactics. They're car people. They do cars. Neither one can imagine how the other so totally ignores something so potentially deadly but we (both) do.

Sniff. Sniff. Smell that? It's FREEDOM.
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Old November 30, 2012, 11:45 AM   #41
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In my experience.......

......I've spent 40+ years as a musician touring all over the Northeast. Never been in a shootout situation but, I've seen LOTS of barroom brawls over the years.

When we would load-in for a gig, we would usually choose a spot close to the stage, backed up against a wall and with the doorway in view.

The location always served us well if (and when) a fight broke out. It provided us a good spot to see pretty much everything going on in the room so we couldn't be blindsided by a chair, bottle, ashtray or any other projectile coming from behind. And, being close to the stage, it afforded us the opportunity to quickly prevent any of our equipment from being damaged in the fracas.
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Old November 30, 2012, 12:05 PM   #42
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I am with twobit here. On the edges, watch the door and the restrooms. Never in the middle and never in a corner. I am not paranoid, that is an irrational fear, I am merely observant.
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Old November 30, 2012, 02:20 PM   #43
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You're talking to a forum of firearms enthusiasts. For better or worse, the thoughts/opinions represented in this thread do not represent the vast majority of Americans
I to am a gun enthusiasts that's why i am on this forum. Maybe its a cultural thing cumming form the UK. I agree with a lot of things posted on this forum it makes sense to be aware of your surroundings but i think you have to draw the line somewhere there is a happy medium. I don't think its good if you feel that you have to look over your shoulder every wear you go. PS My wife likes to sit facing the door that's because shes nosy.
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Old November 30, 2012, 02:43 PM   #44
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You're talking to a forum of firearms enthusiasts. For better or worse, the thoughts/opinions represented in this thread do not represent the vast majority of Americans, most of whom never consider the "tactical" aspects of anything in their lives. The key is "Americans". We are free to make that choice and no one else has to like it. Freedom. It sure beats.... everywhere else... in the world.
Brian. This is the internet, not America. I know this because I just looked out of the window to check and some had written Tere Tulemast Eestis in the snow!
It smelt pretty much like everywhere else... just a bit colder.

Quote:
We're "gun people". We do guns and some tactics too. They're car people. They do cars.
Fixed it for you!!

As for the restaurant question.
I sit where there is a seat available, preferably away from the toilets. I like the window so I can watch the world go by whilst I enjoy my meal...

Perhaps there is a new market for restaurants with armed security, or metal detectors by the Maitre D...
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Old November 30, 2012, 03:58 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Pond, James Pond
Brian. This is the internet, not America.
In the context of this discussion, the VAST majority of participants are Americans in America.

The person to whom I was replying is not American and not in America and framed his question directly to American responses, therefore I frame my answer in the appropriate context.
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Old November 30, 2012, 04:09 PM   #46
Pond, James Pond
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In the context of this discussion, the VAST majority of participants are Americans in America.

The person to whom I was replying is not American and not in America and framed his question directly to American responses, therefore I frame my answer in the appropriate context.
Then it is great to know the response was composed in context.

Quite often many seem to forget that this is an international forum regardless of percentages one way or the other...
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Old November 30, 2012, 04:43 PM   #47
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When possible, perimeter seat with view of main entrance, access to 1-2 exits, table instead of booth, scan nearest current patrons for possible threat and closest hard cover. Pretty much an automatic mental process I go through in public places.

Iā€™m a little surprised there has been no mention of cover, which I consider to be important. It may be better to achieve hard cover than join the crowd at an exit. For this reason, I pay attention to the kitchen door location ā€“ most kitchens have stuff to get behind.
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Old November 30, 2012, 09:25 PM   #48
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I would draw distinctions between "doing guns" (or cars) and fear.
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Old November 30, 2012, 10:07 PM   #49
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"hard cover"

Most places don't have much in the way of cover. Restaurants and theaters are... if you can believe this, built to be comfortable to draw patrons in, and not so comfortable that patrons stay too long.

"Perimeter seating"

Walls don't protect you from the out of control (or sometimes in control) car plowing through the wall or window.

"enjoying your meal"

Sounds nice! Taking basic precautions and then relaxing enough to enjoy your meal and have a great conversation with your companion is a sound plan.

Remember, double tap the salad bar! and don't skimp on the broccoli! its like level III armor for your heart!
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Old November 30, 2012, 10:33 PM   #50
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In a theater probably closes to the door ( entrance ) off to the sides. If someone is shooting down isles, and your in the front, thats a higher chacne you will be hit(down range). Stay up field/range and off to the sides. We have two story seating so I just sit up top and watch the middle stair/entrance. When I eat out, I always face the front door.
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