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Old November 27, 2012, 10:21 AM   #26
SPEMack618
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I object to calling it a weapon too on the basis of my Ruger 77/22 is a rifle that I use to shoot small groups at 100 yards. My 22/45 is a handgun that my girlfriend uses to make Diet Coke cans dance about in the back yard. Those are guns are not being used as weapons. However, my M-4A1 that I carried in the Sandbox is a weapon, provided I was using it to fight bad guys, not run it in a three gun match.

What's that old saw "I'm the weapon; my gun is the tool" or something like that? While I find that a bit melodramatic, I don't think any sort of gun, be it a .22 match rifle or a BAR sitting in an armory is a weapon anymore than the old F-4s sitting in the bone yard. They are tools and object. They don't anything on thier own.
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Old November 27, 2012, 10:22 AM   #27
Sparks1957
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Quote:
We should call them "the objects formerly known as weapons".
Gimme a break... it is what it is


Couldn't agree more... this drive to call everything by 'politically correct' names is maddening.
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Old November 27, 2012, 10:35 AM   #28
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEMack618
I object to calling it a weapon too on the basis of my Ruger 77/22 is a rifle that I use to shoot small groups at 100 yards. My 22/45 is a handgun that my girlfriend uses to make Diet Coke cans dance about in the back yard. Those are guns are not being used as weapons. However, my M-4A1 that I carried in the Sandbox is a weapon, provided I was using it to fight bad guys, not run it in a three gun match.

What's that old saw "I'm the weapon; my gun is the tool" or something like that? While I find that a bit melodramatic, I don't think any sort of gun, be it a .22 match rifle or a BAR sitting in an armory is a weapon anymore than the old F-4s sitting in the bone yard. They are tools and object. They don't anything on thier own.
That arguments been had 1,000 times and no one ever changes their minds but I find it silly.

"Weapon" is a general classification which fits the specific item of a firearm. A given firearms actual use over it's individual life or at any specific moment is irrelevant.

It's like saying a parked car is not a vehicle because vehicles are used to transport people and it's not transporting people when it's parked.

Or a book is not a literary work unless it's being read. I could use a book as a hammer and it's still a literary work.

You can use a gun as a hammer and it's still not a hammer. It's still a gun and it's still weapon by basic design.
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Old November 27, 2012, 10:52 AM   #29
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This sound a little like claiming a pistol (an automatic pistol!) is unloaded that has seven rounds in the magazine but none in the chamber.

Can you weaponize any firearm?
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Last edited by BlueTrain; November 27, 2012 at 01:53 PM.
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Old November 27, 2012, 10:55 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger
...If there was any term I'd want people to stop using, it would be "platform"...
I hope you would be fine with including "tatical" as well.
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Old November 27, 2012, 10:55 AM   #31
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Excellent post Brian. Politically correct semantics are truly exasperating but i suppose it makes a lot fo people "feel" good. Where I grew up we just call them "gawns".
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:01 AM   #32
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weapon is to general a word . A gun is a weapon but a weapon is not necessarilly a gun . You can use a table lamp as a weapon but you can't use a gun as a table lamp and yet they are both weapons if used as such . I still like firearm
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:12 AM   #33
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You can use a table lamp as a weapon but you can't use a gun as a table lamp
Umm......

http://hivemodern.com/pages/product1...dside-gun-lamp
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Old November 27, 2012, 12:40 PM   #34
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I know that when I went through the NRA instructor course for the Boy Scouts, it was pounded in our heads that "weapons" were not permitted, but firearms, guns, and rifle was okay.
An interesting point. If a rampaging raccoon was dispatched with a rifle at Boy Scout camp then that same rifle has become a weapon. A gun has the potential for use either defensively or offensively, and is then by definition a weapon.

Twobit I agree that this is a good thread, and think you also make an interesting point. I appreciate your input.

I think that in most conversation weapon is a perfectly acceptable word when discussing firearms. For those of us who understand our right to keep and bear arms there is no denying it is guns as weapons that is central to the 2A; for those who believe all guns are evil and should be illegal, it doesn't matter what you call them.
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Old November 27, 2012, 01:42 PM   #35
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I am careful to avoid the word "weapon".
I say "firearm" when referring to guns.
A weapon can be any object. An object becomes a weapon only if the person holding it chooses to use it in an offensive manner.
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Old November 27, 2012, 01:50 PM   #36
SPEMack618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K Mac
An interesting point. If a rampaging raccoon was dispatched with a rifle at Boy Scout camp then that same rifle has become a weapon. A gun has the potential for use either defensively or offensively, and is then by definition a weapon.
Interesting point. And as a former camp director, one I feel qualified to answer on. Said rampaging racoon would have to be dispatched by either the camp reservation ranger, or, preferably, State Fish and Game.

Firearms are used for merit badges at Boy Scout camp, that's it., per BSA National Headquarters.
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Old November 27, 2012, 03:47 PM   #37
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Kill stick would work not to bad I think.

What about sport equipment?
Shootings a sport isn't it?
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Old November 27, 2012, 03:55 PM   #38
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No, I'm fine with calling them weapons. That's what they are. Even a little .22 plinker shares the design and potential purpose as something intended to be used to inflict harm.

Calling them weapons may help hammer home how serious these things are, and I see a lot of shooters who need that.
There's too much of an implication that a "weapon" is designed to be used against people. I just can't bring my self to use that term when dealing with a young boy with a pocketknife, a 410, or a 22. That's not what he's supposed to be using it for. And I don't want him getting it in his head that's the purpose for a firearm, a blade or any other tool for that matter.

When it's adults around other adults speaking about firearms for defensive (or offensive) purposes, for killing, injuring, and defeating other people, then use "weapon", "killing machine", or any other term that suits your fancy. Although "rifle", "pistol", and "shotgun" are more specific.
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Old November 27, 2012, 04:10 PM   #39
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I quit worrying about what anti-gun people think a long time ago. Quit wasting your time with these folks you are never going to change their minds about firearms. Make your life simpler avoid these people.
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Old November 27, 2012, 04:54 PM   #40
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Of course, pocketknives, .410 shotguns and .22s are not supposed to be used for killing people but some folks have their own ideas. Woody Guthrie, you know, had a label taped to his guitar that said "This machine kills Fascists," but I don't know if he considered his guitar a weapon or not.
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Old November 27, 2012, 05:15 PM   #41
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A few hundred posts ago, some firearms "purists" on this site corrected/educated me when I refered to a handgun as a "burner". I thought it was kinda funny/knit picky :-) Any how......I call handguns "burners".
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Old November 27, 2012, 05:15 PM   #42
SPEMack618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayneinFL
There's too much of an implication that a "weapon" is designed to be used against people. I just can't bring my self to use that term when dealing with a young boy with a pocketknife, a 410, or a 22. That's not what he's supposed to be using it for. And I don't want him getting it in his head that's the purpose for a firearm, a blade or any other tool for that matter.
Thank you for eloquently stating what I was having trouble formulating.

IMO, we, the firearms community, tend to get very vocal concerning the use of firearms as personal defense weapons, home defense weapons, concealed carry weapons, last ditch weapons against government tyranny and overlook all the other uses of them. And to me, that puts out a bad image to the rest of the public. While, I really could care less what the Huffington Post has to say about me as a gun owner, I certainly care what the mother of Tenderfoot Timmy has to say when he comes home from Boy Scout full of his new found knowledge of how to us a weapon that can kill.
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Old November 27, 2012, 05:29 PM   #43
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A weapon, arm, or armament is a tool or instrument used in order to inflict damage or harm to enemies or other living beings, structures, or systems. Weapons are used to increase the efficacy and efficiency of activities such as hunting, crime, law enforcement, and warfare. In a broader context, weapons may be construed to include anything used to gain a strategic, material or mental advantage over an adversary.

From everyones favorite online reference, wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon

Firearms are weapons. Period.
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Old November 27, 2012, 05:43 PM   #44
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weapon has negative connotations to it which the media love to abuse. I refer to them as rifles, pistols, shotguns or firearms.
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Old November 27, 2012, 05:56 PM   #45
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I have no problem with refering to firearms as weapons. I think dodging the term makes it appear like gun owners are ashamed that their fireARMS are indeed weapons and are trying to obfuscate that fact.



I don't think anyone is buying that line and don't think it does us any favors.



I was taught at a young age that a firearm could be a dangerous weapon and as such demanded a great respect in handling. I can't think of any other tool that is as potentially dangerous to the user and bystanders aside maybe table saws - but the range on them isn't so great.
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Old November 27, 2012, 06:07 PM   #46
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See I have to disagree with you there Brian, I personally prefer platform, but that is me. It has never bothered me. I would rather people stop using the term "sniper rifle". To me it is used more by mall ninjas and such. But we each have our own opinions and that is the way it should be. Firearms are weapons when used as such. Websters defines it as:
1
: something (as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy
2
: a means of contending against another

I know people that have firearms for nothing more than target shooting. So they are like a hammer or a knife. It is like saying my steak knife is a weapon. When it really isn't unless it is used as such. A car is a weapon if used so, but not unless it was. The fine line is that firearms are mostly designed to be a weapon. It is all in the intent of the user or operator.
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Old November 27, 2012, 06:08 PM   #47
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a car is a deadly weapon
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Old November 27, 2012, 06:10 PM   #48
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I haven't called for us all to masquerade as pheasant hunters cherishing blued steel and walnut stocks.

But this aggressive tacticool mentality has affected the language in our sub culture.

If you like black guns. Awesome. If you want to zip line down the range firing your twin glock 40s at zombie targets...terrific.

But when you're at the gun shop or sporting goods gun counter or here on these forums, YouTube or elsewhere on the ultranet...you're in public. While in public best not to offend/confuse/anger polite society. Not saying hide away your secret gun hobby. But why would you want to portray yourself as hostile? Weapon this. Tactical system that. I was in the military. Where we are trained to commit overwhelmingly aggressive violence. Now im a civilian. Do i retain my right to perform violence if needed? Of course. In a DEFENSIVE role. I had to leave my combat mentality or at least the aggressor part there...along with my weapons. Portray yourself as a pro-2nd amendment target shooter/hunter/right to carry person? Sure!

I suppose my point transcends just the weapon terminology to our overall public image.
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Old November 27, 2012, 06:12 PM   #49
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There are two words that apply to a discussion of whether or not the word "Weapon" applies to "Guns".

1:ESOTERIC

1
a : designed for or understood by the specially initiated alone <a body of esoteric legal doctrine — B. N. Cardozo>
b : requiring or exhibiting knowledge that is restricted to a small group <esoteric terminology>; broadly : difficult to understand <esoteric subjects>
2
a : limited to a small circle <engaging in esoteric pursuits>
b : private, confidential <an esoteric purpose>
3
: of special, rare, or unusual interest <esoteric building materials>


2:CLICHÉ

1
: a trite phrase or expression; also : the idea expressed by it
2
: a hackneyed theme, characterization, or situation
3
: something (as a menu item) that has become overly familiar or commonplace
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Old November 27, 2012, 06:30 PM   #50
CharlieDeltaJuliet
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Breakingcontact, I agree whole heartedly.


& Brian, I understand your argument about weapons and guns. I was simply making the point that almost anything can be a weapon, but a firearm isn't always so. It is always in the context of how it is used. The word weapon as used to all firearms does not bother me. I simply substitute other words when in company of people who do not use or own firearms. To be honest, I could care less if I offend them, I just know quickly the word weapon can escalate a conversation or situation.
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