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Old November 24, 2012, 05:26 AM   #1
Keepin_Jeepin
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Safety switch

So, tell me if this is bad practice. But I don't run safetys on any gun.

Everyone around me that shoots, does. Rifles, shotguns, pistols whatever. But here is the thing. I have a gun in my truck , my carry gun and a pistol and a shotgun next to my bed. Every single gun is different and has a safety in a different spot. If I ever needed to use a gun I do not want to be thinking where the safety is.

If I had someone a gun, its unloaded and the slide is back. If you want to shoot my gun, you load your own to shoot it. I have no reason to ever use a safety. My carry gun doesnt even have one.

I guess the arguement could be made if someone else were to grab my gun. Though possible the people I surround myself with don't do that. It could happen, accidents do happen, but thats an extreme what if.

Am I wrong? Does anyone else think like me?
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Old November 24, 2012, 10:08 AM   #2
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Quote:
I have a gun in my truck , my carry gun and a pistol and a shotgun next to my bed.
Do you keep them loaded or unloaded?

If your carry gun and pistol are designed to be carried loaded without a safety (Glock, double action revolver, etc) then there's no problem.

A loaded shotgun with the safety off next to the bed? I can't imagine any type of shotgun where that would be a good decision.
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Old November 24, 2012, 10:17 AM   #3
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On my guns with safeties, if they are loaded and a round chambered, then yes, I use the safety (e.g. 1911 cocked-n-locked on the bedside table). And when I practice with them, I practice using the safety as well.

However, most of mine do not have a safety, being either DA revolvers or DA/SA pistols with dockers (in which case they are loaded, round chambered and decocked).

My feeling is, that if you do not want to learn to use a mechanical manual safety, then pick firearms without them in the first place. This is the very reason many people actually prefer a Glock or a revolver as their carry/SD handgun (I do not own a Glock, but that's because I do not own any striker fired pistols at all).

What if, as in your stated case, a safety inadvertently got swiped ON and you grabbed the gun in a true life-or-death crisis expecting the safety to already be OFF? By the time, in your adrenalin hammered mind, you realize the gun ain't going bang, it may be too late to rectify.
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Old November 24, 2012, 10:18 AM   #4
MTSCMike
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I shoot competitively and I also practice a lot with every gun I have available for HD and CCW. In competition the use of the safety in mandatory. The safety is there for a reason and I use them. Because I practice and I am familiar with all my firearms, I don't actually have to think about disengaging the safety. It is part of my muscle memory and just happens without much thought.
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Old November 24, 2012, 10:26 AM   #5
Vireye
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Depends on the firearm for me.

My shotgun, safety is always on when it's not in use.

My Glock and Sig obviously don't have safeties.

My Walther PPK, it depends on the situation. If it's on the nightstand, the safety is on. If I'm carrying, occasionally I keep the safety off (it has a long DA first trigger pull, so I'm not that concerned with a ND drawing/holstering)
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Old November 24, 2012, 11:03 AM   #6
jhenry
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I will assume the firearms are loaded.

This is an accident, for which you may well be held liable, waiting to happen. You have just announced they have disengaged safeties on purpose, and announced it all over the internet for any lawyer's assistant to find.

Being able to disengage or engage the safety of any weapon you plan to use in a self defense situation is fairly important business. It just takes some practice and muscle memory. This can be done with dry fire drills pretty effectively as well as range time. You can minimize some of this by using handguns designed to be used without a deliberate and separate safety disengagement. Glocks and DA revolvers have been mentioned. There are some others as well.
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Old November 24, 2012, 11:12 AM   #7
Crow Hunter
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You need to train/practice with your guns until disengaging the safety becomes 2nd nature.

Just the same as making sure it's operating characteristics are 2nd nature. Pump if it is pump operated, cycling the bolt, pushing the magazine release, pushing the cylinder latch forwards instead of in or down, etc.

Just because you leave a safety off, doesn't mean that it won't somehow get put back on. Murphy's Law always wins.

Practice, practice, practice.

It can also help to get a many weapons types as similar as you can, HD shotgun the same as your upland game gun which is the same action as your duck gun and the same as your trap gun etc. This is what I do.

Benelli shotguns, AR-15 type rifles, Glock semiautos and S&W revolvers.

As a matter of fact, just for fun yesterday I took out my Dad's old Browning BPS to go crow hunting with. I kept trying to double check the safety behind the trigger guard.
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Old November 24, 2012, 11:57 AM   #8
Pahoo
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Use them but don't trust them !!!

Quote:
Am I wrong? Does anyone else think like me?
I won't say that but will say that I'd be wrong if I did not use a safety when available. In our hungter safety classes, we teach to use safeties but not to trust them. We are heavy into the four basic gun handling rules, with muzzle control being the most important. ...

We also teach levels of safety and the use of safties is one important level. If you don't use them, you get closer to getting in trouble. ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old November 24, 2012, 12:11 PM   #9
arizona98tj
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Quote:
If I ever needed to use a gun I do not want to be thinking where the safety is.
If you can't be proficient (manipulating the safety) with a couple of your most commonly used firearms, I guess that is your choice. I wouldn't use your idea myself.
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Old November 24, 2012, 12:23 PM   #10
the jigger
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safety off?

It is bad practice FOR ME.
It is not for me to judge what is good or bad practice for someone else'
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Old November 24, 2012, 01:39 PM   #11
hardworker
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Riding around with a loaded gun in the truck safety off is a piece of foolishness. People have been killed by accidents stemming from that. If you can't remember how to knock off a safety on more than one type of gun than you should re-examine your decision to own guns. I've been shooting guns my whole life. They all have different safeties, and I'd never think of riding around or leaving one lying around with no safety on.

And before the glock and revolver crowd come with pitchforks and torches, yes I realize that they do not have safeties. I'm talking about shotguns and rifles with hair triggers. And 1911's. I'd never leave a 1911 lying around hammer back safety off.

Accidents can and do happen, and there's no going back if someone dies.
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Old November 24, 2012, 01:52 PM   #12
Sparks1957
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If your gun has a safety, it is designed to be used. Part of the deal when you own guns is to learn how to use them properly and safely, and if one can't be bothered to remember how to operate the safety maybe you aren't ready.

If you don't want safeties on your handgun, there are options. I like my DA/SA pistols with no safeties, but I am confident my training and the long DA pull will minimize the chances of a ND.

I want safeties on my rifles and shotguns.
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Old November 24, 2012, 02:02 PM   #13
hardworker
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Too many stories in the news about people killed accidentally by firearms. Every one of those people thinks "it can't happen to me, I'm too careful", and a half a second's worth of bad decisions later someone dies. We don't live in Somalia, there's no need to act like it.
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Old November 24, 2012, 04:02 PM   #14
g.willikers
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Not that safeties are a guarantee against an AD, but -
Where the safeties are located, and being able to manipulate them, should require as little thought as driving your car or riding a bicycle.
If they aren't, dry fire, dry fire, dry fire until they are.
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Old November 24, 2012, 04:12 PM   #15
LarryFlew
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One of the reasons I sold a favorite CZ is because it was the only one I owned with decocker instead of a safety. Get them all the same if you think you will have trouble and then practice, practice and after that try a little practice.
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Old November 24, 2012, 04:20 PM   #16
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keepin Jeepin
Am I wrong? Does anyone else think like me?
You haven't told us everything. Do you keep these guns with a round in the chamber, or with the chamber empty?

Reportedly, the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) thinks like you. The story I've been given, from multiple sources (some of which might even be reliable) is that IDF agents may be called upon to carry and use any of a variety of handguns. Since, as in your case, the guns aren't all laid out the same, in order to train to a consistent manual of arms they carry with no safety, and no round in the chamber. It is from this that the term "Israeli draw" derives -- they train to draw and rack the slide while presenting the firearm. Supposedly, most of their agents can execute an Israeli draw faster than most people can draw a 1911 in Condition 1 and swipe off the thumb safety.

However ... I have an intuition that you are keeping one in the chamber, which I would consider to be dangerous and ill-advised.

As for me -- there's a reason I only carry 1911s.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; November 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Multiple typos
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Old November 24, 2012, 09:09 PM   #17
ltc444
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I limit the number of firearm types we use for self defense. EAA Witness/TZ-75 They have the same safety system. Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun and AR-15.

Plus it is practice, practice and more practice.
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Old November 25, 2012, 04:53 AM   #18
Keepin_Jeepin
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Agulia you make a good point, I didnt specify.

Truck gun, not chambered.
Carry gun, chambered no safety
Bedside gun, chambered and safety off.
Bedside shotgun, chambered and safety off
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Old November 25, 2012, 07:05 AM   #19
Kreyzhorse
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If it has a safety, use it. If you are uncomfortable with the locations of the safety, practice with them to you are.
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Old November 25, 2012, 08:48 AM   #20
hardworker
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A shotgun doesn't have enough trigger to be safe without the safety on. That's a disaster waiting to happen.
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Old November 25, 2012, 08:59 AM   #21
Sparks1957
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Quote:
A shotgun doesn't have enough trigger to be safe without the safety on. That's a disaster waiting to happen
Couldn't agree more. I would urge the OP to reconsider his habits before something really bad happens.
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Old November 25, 2012, 09:33 AM   #22
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keepin Jeepin
Truck gun, not chambered.
Carry gun, chambered no safety
Bedside gun, chambered and safety off.
Bedside shotgun, chambered and safety off
So they are not all in the same condition. Which means in the event you have to use one, instead of remembering where the safety is, you have to remember if it's loaded or not. IMHO this demolishes any validity your approach might have.

Also, in your first post, you wrote about the "extreme what if" of someone else grabbing your gun. But isn't that exactly what the Internet "experts" tell us is why we shouldn't ever open carry ... because some bad guy will sneak up and grab our piece when we're not paying attention?

I don't think your approach is logical, and it certainly isn't safe.
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Old November 25, 2012, 10:20 AM   #23
EdInk
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If a gun is designed with a manual safety, has a round chambersd and is not being fired then put the safety on. Simple.
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Old November 25, 2012, 12:16 PM   #24
ScotchMan
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Additionally, your shotgun probably isn't drop-safe. Small chance, but leaving a round chambered in an HD shotgun is not my choice. I leave the safety off but the gun unchambered.
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Old November 25, 2012, 02:36 PM   #25
arizona98tj
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Quote:
I have a gun in my truck , my carry gun and a pistol and a shotgun next to my bed.
Quote:
You haven't told us everything. Do you keep these guns with a round in the chamber, or with the chamber empty?
A person that wants to walk around with the chamber on his carry gun empty.....IMO, might as well leave it at home and learn how to run fast. Just sayin'......
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