The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 27, 2012, 11:39 PM   #26
Deja vu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2010
Location: Border of Idaho & Montana
Posts: 2,132
I typically use my 357 magnum Marlin lever action... Why? Its cause I am best with it. It is a trapper model with a 16 inch barrel and it very small and light and handy. I have shot it since I was a child. I have taken many deer with it as well as lots of plinking and small game.

I believe in using what you are best with.
__________________
Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 25 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple
Deja vu is offline  
Old November 28, 2012, 12:55 AM   #27
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
oldmarksman

Quote:
To me, the biggest limitation of the shotgun is that I would have to be able to get to it for it to be of any use to me.
That is exactly my same issue. It is my "fault" or choice, but in my household safety must come first. If the SHTF I can't think of a better firearm to use for the HomeDefense scenario(in my opinion & considering the firearms we own).
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old November 28, 2012, 01:01 AM   #28
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
scrubcedar

Quote:
I understand that pistols seem easier to maneuver in a confined space. But If I have the option between a pistol caliber weapon and the damage it causes and a shotgun with the damage it causes............the answer is easy.
I agree. The odds heavily favor the shotgun(again, in my opinion). If two or three guys are in your house on the offensive(extremely aggressive and quick), would you want your handgun or the loaded shotgun? You already answered the question...
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old November 28, 2012, 08:51 AM   #29
MarkDozier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2010
Posts: 338
The OP made several errors.
Shooting someone in your home is not the same as the case in FL.

He makes an uninformed statement when he say " You should not kill" when the original text reads "You shall not commit murder"
The vidoe could have been shot in a better location, allowing for better message delivery.

And honestly anytime someone feels the need to say trust me (think used car salesman) when presenting a opinion makes me suspect about the content of the message.

Last edited by MarkDozier; November 28, 2012 at 09:00 AM.
MarkDozier is offline  
Old November 28, 2012, 10:10 AM   #30
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,435
Quote:
Seems a difference between night and day to me. If there is anywhere you should be justified in using deadly force if you have to it's in your home.
Just yesterday someone in "FLORIDA" was charged with murder for shooting two intruders who were not a threat while therein!!!

You can't EXECUTE intruders when the threat ceases to exist ... Law or no law, Trust me...

I don't know if this is the case I heard, but close enough:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...th-murder?lite
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"

Last edited by WildBill45; November 28, 2012 at 10:18 AM. Reason: change word, add article link
WildBill45 is offline  
Old November 28, 2012, 11:58 AM   #31
DasGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2011
Posts: 318
A good point to add to the video is putting a sling on any long gun. It will be much harder for a badguy to take it from you.

Regarding that story, the guy shot them, then executed them and then hid their bodies in his basement. It's completely different from the Zimmerman / Martin fiasco.
DasGuy is offline  
Old November 28, 2012, 12:21 PM   #32
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 1,691
Like you Wild Bill I carried a shotgun for many years, I carried an AR for just as many though.

I tend to be in Mas's camp here. The shotgun for me is a gun for repelling boarders at no further than 15 yards. A carbine is much more of a multi purpose long gun.

I actually like lever action pistol caliber carbines and have Marlins in 357 and 44. Compared to my 870 they are smaller, lighter, carry more ammo and ammo is less bulky. Granted they do not have the raw power of the 12 gauge, but I feel that is a very minor issue.

Quote:
A good point to add to the video is putting a sling on any long gun. It will be much harder for a badguy to take it from you.
I am not about to wrestle over a long gun, drop it and use your pistol to engage the BG.
__________________
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old November 28, 2012, 01:01 PM   #33
spacecoast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,115
Quote:
Just yesterday someone in "FLORIDA" was charged with murder for shooting two intruders who were not a threat while therein!!!
Note this was in Minnesota, not Florida... the "basement" was a dead giveaway.

Also, it was likely the follow-up shots that earned the murder charge, not the initial shots. This guy was off his rocker and had been broken into before.
spacecoast is offline  
Old November 28, 2012, 02:55 PM   #34
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,686
ChrisLCR - you need to study up on the legal ramifications that occur with self-defense shootings.

This forum is well past simple statements of the 'good' shoot theory or that we should give it up because there might be legal considerations in other behaviors and/or equipment choice that might come up at trial.

GEM
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old November 28, 2012, 06:26 PM   #35
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,435
[QUOTE]A good point to add to the video is putting a sling on any long gun.[/QUOTE

A sling is good in MOST scenarios, but sometimes it can be a dangerous burden, noisy as hell, and the bad guy, if bigger and stronger can throw you around whilst taking the shotgun away. As I said earlier, and also some other gentleman said today, this is why I Like a pistol on board as well when shotgunning for bad guys in the house or the bush!

Military guys today use them a lot in the middle east, as they usually have backup behind them, but put them out in the jungle, and you won't see all those slings being used ... too noisy, grabs limbs, and restrict your movement.

If you have a backup to cover the bad guy, a sling is nice to keep the shotgun on your person while dealing with the person of interest.
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"
WildBill45 is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 10:43 AM   #36
boattale
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2012
Posts: 118
One option the shotgun gives you that the pistol does not is the ability to deliver a horizontal buttstroke. That's the old Marine in me talking.

I'd rather knock somebody's teeth out than kill him (given the choice).

Last edited by boattale; November 29, 2012 at 01:26 PM.
boattale is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 12:42 PM   #37
WV_gunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 623
I use a Stoegor Condor and a Rossi Circuit Judge. The Stoeger has no external hammers and a single trigger. Makes 2 very quick shots. The Rossi is a 5 shot, double action, revolving rifle. I load the Stoegor with 12 gauge Winchester #4 3 inch shells and the Rossi with Federal 000 3 inch shells. Sometimes I use Hornady LeveRevolution .45 Colts.

I prefer long guns for home defense. Seems to be easier for me. When funds permit I'm buying mini sabot slugs for my rifled Mossberg.
I don't like the idea of using rifle cartridges for home defense. Over penetration is very possible. A piece of paneling, insulation, thin aluminum, and 15 feet is all that is between me and my neighbor.
WV_gunner is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 03:33 PM   #38
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,686
Boattale - well that's true. Not being anything but a fog, I ran in a shoot house where they simulated being in your jammies (really an old fashioned night gown) with a coach gun and a box of shells. You were supposed to navigate through various rooms with 3D dummies and deal with. Carrying the shells, reloading - mixed BBs or slugs was interesting. At one intersection, I came to - there was a target down the hall and another. Bang, bang - but surprise, right around the corner (had to move) was another and the gun was empty. Thus, I busted him in the head with the butt.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 03:57 PM   #39
ChasingWhitetail91
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 10, 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 336
my chopped 16 ga. stays loaded and attached to my bed at all times. treat every gun like its loaded, then keep it loaded cause it aint no good for hd if it's not.
__________________
Abraham Lincoln made all men free, Samuel Colt made them equal.
ChasingWhitetail91 is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 05:05 PM   #40
Panfisher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 600
Maybe I am off base, but seems to me that every platform, rifle, handgun, shotgun, baseball bat etc. has strengths and weaknesses. They will vary from person to person and from situation to situation. I am more comfortable with a rifle than a shotgun, but wouldn't hesitate to employ a shotgun if the situation arose, ditto for the handgun. I would rather my wife have a 10/22 and 25 round mag that I know she can absolutely place bullets where and when she wants to than a shotgun or handgun she doesn't like, or is afraid of. Fortunately my wife loves my AR and its mag of HP's. Whtever you are comfortable, accurate with, and is reliable use it.
Panfisher is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 06:06 PM   #41
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,435
Shotguns are part of every American Kid's memories and skill sets

A shotgun is a proven platform in civilian usage, and one of the main reasons is, EXPERIENCE!

More folks have more actually shooting experience with shotguns than rifles due to the habits of America's hunting families. Every kid worth his salt grew up with a shotgun, a beagle, and a box of shells, all shot by mid-day Saturday.

Deer rifles are shot by most the week before season, maybe half-a-box to sight in, then into the field where no shots are fired on most days of hunting...

Everyone is experienced, thus confident with the shotgun. This is tantamount to a smile, it comes naturally, as everyday things do!!!
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"
WildBill45 is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 06:09 PM   #42
SIGSHR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2005
Posts: 3,076
Biggest weakness is that too many think it's a mere matter of "point and pull" and they need no special training on it. Plus manipulating a long arm in the dark or bad light when you've just woken up out of a sound sleep, can't find your glasses, are note sure what you've heard or who you are facing.
SIGSHR is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 06:57 PM   #43
WV_gunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 623
Not everyone grew up with shotguns, I grew up with up with rifles. yet I still prefer shoyguns for home defense.
WV_gunner is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 07:33 PM   #44
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,435
Quote:
many think it's a mere matter of "point and pull"
And they would be right! Point and shoot is the highest level of up close and personal shooting!

When I first started Martial Arts I thought a punch was just a punch. After mastering the art I found out that a punch is just a punch...

Point and shooting is just point and shooting.
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"
WildBill45 is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 07:55 PM   #45
shurshot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Posts: 761
I would think a well hidden home defense weapon is prefered, lest one arrive home from shopping and find a well armed burglar (with your gun), waiting for you.
shurshot is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 07:58 PM   #46
Chris9472
Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 99
Quote:
I would think a well hidden home defense weapon is prefered, lest one arrive home from shopping and find a well armed burglar (with your gun), waiting for you.
It depends on how big your house is and how clever you are.
Chris9472 is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 08:05 PM   #47
Chris9472
Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 99
Quote:
I would rather my wife have a 10/22 and 25 round mag that I know she can absolutely place bullets where and when she wants to than a shotgun or handgun she doesn't like, or is afraid of. Fortunately my wife loves my AR and its mag of HP's. Whtever you are comfortable, accurate with, and is reliable use it.
Actually, a properly working 10/22 isn't half bad for HD. It's small, light, holds lots of rounds and can be fired very fast, even one handed if need be. If I had children, this is what I'd train them to use for HD.

I don't know about the homebreakers, but I wouldn't care much for being caught in a hail of bullets spitting out of a 10/22!
Chris9472 is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 08:14 PM   #48
Chris9472
Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 99
Quote:
Quote:
Seems a difference between night and day to me. If there is anywhere you should be justified in using deadly force if you have to it's in your home.
Just yesterday someone in "FLORIDA" was charged with murder for shooting two intruders who were not a threat while therein!!!

You can't EXECUTE intruders when the threat ceases to exist ... Law or no law, Trust me...
If you read my comments, I said "using deadly force in your own home IF YOU HAVE TO. I never said anything about doing so when it is unnecessary.

Regarding the Florida case, I don't know the details. I wonder how it was determined after the fact that the intruders were "not a threat"? How was the homeowner supposed to know at the time? I'll have to check that one out.

Last edited by Chris9472; November 29, 2012 at 08:33 PM.
Chris9472 is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 08:26 PM   #49
Chris9472
Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 99
Quote:
ChrisLCR - you need to study up on the legal ramifications that occur with self-defense shootings.
Your right. Can you provide some good links? However, I probably understand more about them then you may think, otherwise I wouldn't get upset everytime somebody tells someone that their life may be ruined if they ever had to use deadly force trying to save it, because they are probably telling the truth.

Quote:
This forum is well past simple statements of the 'good' shoot theory or that we should give it up because there might be legal considerations in other behaviors and/or equipment choice that might come up at trial.
Not sure what you mean here. Sounds like you agree that we shouldn't give up the right to defend ourselves?

Last edited by Chris9472; November 29, 2012 at 08:31 PM.
Chris9472 is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 10:06 PM   #50
Nnobby45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 3,148
Interesting how the argument seems to be either the pistol or the shotgun.

Both have a place in my HD strategy. There's a place for each to cover different circumstances.
Nnobby45 is offline  
Reply

Tags
home invasion , shotgun

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12459 seconds with 7 queries