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Old November 25, 2012, 10:38 PM   #1
warbirdlover
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We were cheated

We (6 of us) have 120 leased acres (rolling oak tree woods) in central Wisconsin and planted food plots to hold the deer in this year. A week before gun season the 3 guys that bow hunt the land saw 10-12 HUGE monster bucks, most over 20 inches spread. They were hanging around my blind. Come rifle season (just ended today) we got one doe off the land (mine). We found the doe was full of corn. There hasn't been corn naturally for them in almost 2 months. This county is near the CWD counties so no baiting is allowed. In the counties that can bait only a five gallon bucket can be put down. The neighbors accross the road got all the big bucks because they were putting out HUGE corn piles and pulled all the deer over to them. We have never gone a year without taking at least 4 bucks off this land and usually one or two is a monster. The doe was the only deer taken. The lease member who handles it knows all the wardens in this area (and the baiters) and this year (or next) those neighbors will be paying up to $2100 in fines and losing their hunting privileges for 3 years. The cheaters won this year but never again!
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Old November 26, 2012, 01:25 AM   #2
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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This is an interesting subject. How one would handle if it were them in the situation. One doesn't want to condone someones breaking of the law. And again you don't want to be the informer either.

Baiting has been on going for years in Wisconsin. That's what brought CWD into focus over there. In past years it sounds like you and friends did well on that same parcel of leased land. I don't think anyone's behavior changed this year from the lasts and the one before. Deer wander off one parcel of land to another all the time. Breeding, safety, & food are a few reasons that I know of. Its just natural for them to do so. The difference is. (I would be speculating some saying this.) That local neighbor knew where deer perhaps cross and move about on his land. And according to you it appears made use of that information before those same deer returned to your plot of leased land. I don't think you and friends were gypped or cheated. You fellows just got caught up in the natural ways wild animals behave. How I'd handle. I'd re-plant that food plot in front of your stand with another local seed instead. Like alfalfa or clover. Something natural to that area. Consider buying your seed from a local Grainary. Maybe next year you and partners will have better luck in harvesting your deer.
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Old November 26, 2012, 08:10 AM   #3
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First off, I too am not a fan of baiting deer, but where it is legal, if others want to do it, than go for it. Secondly, I see no difference between the planting of food plots specifically to attract deer to an area to be shot than dumping a pail of the same grain on the ground in front of a stand. 120 acres is a small parcel, even in Wisconsin and hard to believe it would be a sanctuary for 12 bucks with 20'' or more spreads, so in reality, the majority of those bucks lived somewhere else anyway. Having 3 hunters pressure the parcel the week before gun season would have more effect on mature deer activity than a few pails of corn across the fence. Like Sure Shot Mc Gee, I think the bucks got caught chasing hot does somewhere else this season and were shot before they made it back to your parcel. Neighbors may have changed their stands from the previous year and cut you off. If you are certain the neighbors were violating than whether or not to turn them in is up to you. Unfortunately, many times relationships between neighbors have been severely soured because of deer hunting and all concerned suffer. Part of deer hunting is coming home empty handed once in a while. Sounds like you've had good luck in the past and odds are you will again in the future. Cherish the fact you have a nice place to hunt and the opportunity to enjoy it.
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Old November 26, 2012, 08:20 AM   #4
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"10-12 huge bucks" in 120 acres is 60 bucks per square mile. Add in an appropriate number of does (anywhere from 1:3 to 1:6 buck to doe) and you get a deer density of 240 deer (say 4 does per buck) per square mile.

Really?
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Old November 26, 2012, 09:54 AM   #5
warbirdlover
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Quote:
This is an interesting subject. How one would handle if it were them in the situation. One doesn't want to condone someones breaking of the law. And again you don't want to be the informer either.

Baiting has been on going for years in Wisconsin. That's what brought CWD into focus over there. In past years it sounds like you and friends did well on that same parcel of leased land. I don't think anyone's behavior changed this year from the lasts and the one before. Deer wander off one parcel of land to another all the time. Breeding, safety, & food are a few reasons that I know of. Its just natural for them to do so. The difference is. (I would be speculating some saying this.) That local neighbor knew where deer perhaps cross and move about on his land. And according to you it appears made use of that information before those same deer returned to your plot of leased land. I don't think you and friends were gypped or cheated. You fellows just got caught up in the natural ways wild animals behave. How I'd handle. I'd re-plant that food plot in front of your stand with another local seed instead. Like alfalfa or clover. Something natural to that area. Consider buying your seed from a local Grainary. Maybe next year you and partners will have better luck in harvesting your deer.
Sorry but I disagree. No corn in 2 months and no baiting allowed in this county. Doe full of corn. Neighbors kill all the big bucks that were on our land a couple weeks before. Average 4 buck deer per year every year for last 10 years. Same hunters and same blind locations. And none of the other neighbors except the one get deer. Last year we took one that was well over 20" wide.

And YES, there were 10 nice bucks on this land. I'm talking 18" on up to mid 20" spread on a couple. Nice racks. The person giving this info who also bow hunts on this land is a farmer who planted the food plots this year to hold the deer. These deer were not all seen together at once but at different times. One of these deer was recognized by a pic of the neighbor in the paper with it during bow hunting. Do you know how much corn you would have to put out to fill all the doe and bucks in the area? That's how much they're putting out.

Last edited by warbirdlover; November 26, 2012 at 09:59 AM.
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Old November 26, 2012, 10:07 AM   #6
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I disagree as well, I'm a big fan of privacy and I dislike government interference in most issues, but when it comes to fish and game laws, which at the state level at least, are reasonable, I will become a "snitch" or "informer" in a heart beat if I see a violation.

Heck, my local Game Warden's personal cell number is programmed on my phone.
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Old November 26, 2012, 10:26 AM   #7
warbirdlover
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If I'm being cheated I'll snitch too. Greed is ruining this world and when it starts to affect my enjoyment of hunting I'll rat on anyone of these jerks. I don't have to though. The lead guy in our lease is friends with all the wardens and knows who these guys are. We're not friends with them and none of us live close to this land.

We pay good money to hunt this land and have done so for years. The farmer in our group went through all the work of planting food plots this summer to make it even better.

Why should we put up with this?
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Old November 26, 2012, 10:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
If I'm being cheated I'll snitch too. Greed is ruining this world and when it starts to affect my enjoyment of hunting I'll rat on anyone of these jerks. I don't have to though. The lead guy in our lease is friends with all the wardens and knows who these guys are. We're not friends with them and none of us live close to this land.

We pay good money to hunt this land and have done so for years. The farmer in our group went through all the work of planting food plots this summer to make it even better.

Why should we put up with this?
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I am with you, I would turn them in also. Illegal is illegal and they need to be stopped, why should they be allowed to hunt illegally and on top of it ruin your legal hunting in the process.
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Old November 26, 2012, 11:01 AM   #9
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Well, if you notify the warden I dont know that you are going to be in trouble with the neighbors. Do you live somewhere that the warden could haphazardly be driving down the road and see a huge mound of corn?

Notify the warden about it, tell him you would appreciate it if he would approach it as

"Hey guys how ya doin today? I was driving down the road here on my way to ...whatever... and couldn't help but notice you spilled all this here corn. You plan on cleaning it up soon?"

Now they know that he knows, and they'd be complete fools to continue. Plus now the neighbor boys are on his radar. Or, if the warden wants to just cut to the chase and write them up for the offense, that's his decision. All you have to do is notify, it's not up to you to decide if you want to "press charges" in a situation like this.
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Old November 26, 2012, 11:18 AM   #10
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Not worried about trouble with the neighbors. Wrong is wrong.
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Old November 26, 2012, 04:55 PM   #11
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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I own an acre or two myself up in Northern MN. I know my neighbors well. And they know me and what I will tolerate and what I won't concerning my parcel of land that I pay property tax on Warbirdlover. I also know what they do on their land prior to and during deer season. I don't begrudge them two weeks and three weekends out of a year for bad behavior. I'll admit sometimes I get a little frustrated with them no doubt about that. And I'm sure it is the same for them towards me. But never enough to turn them into a Law Enforcement Officer for gaining a deer or two. But since you don't own property where you hunt, sounds like none in your party have ties to the folks living in the area either. I can understand our difference in opinions.
Warbirdlover you do what you think is right. After all this thread was done in my spare time and didn't cost me anything as will your decision. And again is just an opinion from some old geezer who just try's to get along from one day to the next with all folks.~~~to a point_
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Old November 26, 2012, 05:50 PM   #12
warbirdlover
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Everyone has opinion. These "neighbors" KNEW we had a good plot of land over the years and concocted this plan to get ALL of them to their land. They always got deer but now have gotten really greedy and are breaking the law. We have always played by the rules and will continue to do so. But won't put up with others not playing by the rules.
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Old November 26, 2012, 07:38 PM   #13
Art Eatman
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Whether hunting or football, a game is only honest and fair when everybody plays by the rules. Game wardens = Zebras; sounds like it's time to throw a flag.
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Old November 26, 2012, 08:41 PM   #14
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I have hunted West Virginia every year for about the last 20 -25 years. I remember telling a guy from Pa. (Where I live) that you would never see corn in a deer where I hunted in West Virginia. I was real wrong. One year a kid shot up a deer pretty bad and I helped him field dress the deer. I saw corn spilling out and we then checked the deer that others were getting. Quite a few had corn in them. It is surprising how far a deer goes to feed when it is a bad year for acorns. I would just be sure of my accusations.
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Old November 26, 2012, 09:29 PM   #15
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I think the Warden needs to be called also. I also think the warden needs to be told the facts only and let him do his job.
What I mean by this is unless you witnessed baiting on the next lease over then report that, not an assumption. Hey it might be some tree huger trying to keep deer off all the hunting leases.
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Old November 26, 2012, 10:31 PM   #16
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Sounds like you may need to rent a plane and fly over the neighbors property. They may have a food plot with corn in it? Just because all the corn in the area has been harvested for say six weeks doesn't mean it all ended up in the combine either.
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Old November 26, 2012, 11:01 PM   #17
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Here In Colorado if your get cited for DOW violation you have the option of a trail and that person who turned them in may be called as a witness. There is lawyers that specialize in those type cases not so much the fine but the loss of
hunting privileges.

I'm not saying don't turn him in but you may not got the results your hoping for.
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Old November 26, 2012, 11:13 PM   #18
warbirdlover
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Like I said. Most of these big bucks were taken by the one neighbor. They didn't roam for miles. The lease member who runs it will take care of it since he knows all the wardens and all the neighbors. I don't have to get involved. He's the one who put in all the work putting in food plots near all our stands and is the most upset about this. Food plots are legal btw.
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Old November 27, 2012, 12:57 AM   #19
Keg
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Question..Is hunting 6 people on 120 acres the norm? I know very little about Wisconsin..but around here hunting that many on small acreage would be considered by many unethical.... We hunt 1 person to minimum 100 acres on our lease..sometimes I feel like that is too many....
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Old November 27, 2012, 08:59 AM   #20
warbirdlover
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Six people hunting a 120 acre woods in Wisconsin is considered Heaven. Especially if you've ever hunted on public land. We sit in our stands all day and don't roam around. The deer usually follow their normal patterns and aren't jumpy. At least if they're ON the land.
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Old November 27, 2012, 09:12 AM   #21
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Quote:
Question..Is hunting 6 people on 120 acres the norm? I know very little about Wisconsin..but around here hunting that many on small acreage would be considered by many unethical.... We hunt 1 person to minimum 100 acres on our lease..sometimes I feel like that is too many....
What works in Texas doesn't work everywhere. You're talkin about 2 completely different kinda of hunting. Texas is big with lots of large tracks of huntable land. SE Wisconsin is farm ground broken up by many many land owners and while it has more timber than the area I hunt here in Iowa, 120 acres of timber is a pretty good size chunk for this area. Big mistake to base what works and is ethical for everyone everywhere completely based on your local circumstances, laws and customs. In short....... Don't speak about what you don't know.
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Old November 27, 2012, 09:42 AM   #22
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In Missouri it's against the law to bait period.
My question is how did you know they were putting out huge piles of corn?

Here's my experience with leased land for hunting.

We have a neighbor that leases his land for hunting, the problem is his land is barron, he's raped the land of every tree and piece of cover that was on the land, so there's not much on his land to hunt.

So the guys that lease his land put their stands right on the fence line of the surrounding neighbors who have not raped their land of all the cover.
They shoot deer on neighboring land and cross the fence to retreive the deer they shoot.

My brother and I hunt an 80 acre piece that is heavy with timber and brush, so the deer hole up in there because it's the only cover on that section.

This year we caught one of the hunters that had the surrounding land leased shooting a deer on us and climbing the fence to get his deer.
We confronted him about it and he wanted to give us the deer.
We told him to keep the deer but the next time we catch him or any of his buddies that are leasing hunting rights on the other land on our side of the fence we will call the sheriff and have them arrested for trespassing.

As for baiting and food plots to attract the deer, I would say there's a very fine line between the two.

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Old November 27, 2012, 09:46 AM   #23
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Warbird. Just a quick question. What was planted in yall's food plots?
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Old November 27, 2012, 10:56 AM   #24
Art Eatman
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"As for baiting and food plots to attract the deer, I would say there's a very fine line between the two."

No "fine line" where the law is concerned. In this particular case, food plots are within the law. Baiting is not.

And in this particular case, people who had paid money for the hunting opportunity--which, based on past history was good--had that opportunity reduced by a criminal action. Tantamount to theft.
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:25 AM   #25
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keg
Question..Is hunting 6 people on 120 acres the norm? I know very little about Wisconsin..but around here hunting that many on small acreage would be considered by many unethical.... We hunt 1 person to minimum 100 acres on our lease..sometimes I feel like that is too many....


That's funny, right there.

My hunting group routinely hunts a 12 acre plot, 5 of which is unhunted open field/cabin with 5, sometimes 7, people. We're talking 1 acre per person here.

Sometimes a couple of us are on neighboring properties so we are hunting maybe 50 acres with 5-7 people.

We also have a small lease that is just barely 100 acres TOTAL and at least half of it is open field and a solid 20 acres of it we never touch, so we're hunting maybe 30 acres with as many as 5 people.
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