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Old November 23, 2012, 09:06 PM   #1
DASHZNT
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.44 Magnum 300gr XTP Load Help...

I am trying to make a good load for SD and why not take down a bear as well, you never know!

I have my powder and primer already chosen and I plan on working up a load as usual but the one thing I want to get right is the taper crimp. What is the crimp size for this round? I dont want to over crimp this and create too much pressure.

Thank You.

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Old November 23, 2012, 09:17 PM   #2
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Ummm.... the .44 mag takes a roll crimp not a taper crimp.
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Old November 23, 2012, 09:34 PM   #3
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Well im using a dillon 550 and dillon dies... its good enough for them which is good enough for me.. so dyou know the magic number or do i have to buy commercial ammo and copy?

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Old November 23, 2012, 10:11 PM   #4
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You want a heavy roll crimp, this will keep the bullets in the case under the heavy recoil. Also seat to the top grove, not the bottom one.

What powder are you planning on using?
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Old November 23, 2012, 10:21 PM   #5
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Im seating to the top cannelure... Im slightly above half of it around 1.588-1.590 OAL. Im planning working up two loads, 1 is a load with Alliant 2400 and the other an economical load with Titegroup, because it takes less powder to acheive a good load and im familiar with using it in some target loads i made awhile back. Hit me up if you have something interesting i should try and ill cross reference it with my manuals... Thank You.

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Old November 23, 2012, 11:26 PM   #6
Steve in PA
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As far as which groove you seat to, it depends on what handgun you are using. For instance, Ruger's have long cylinders and you can seat the 300 XTP out farther than some other handguns. The COL for my 240 and 300 grain XTP's is 1.600". I have not worked up anything for the lower groove yet.

As for taper vs roll crimp, well......I guess you can get by with a taper crimp, but 99.9% of the rest of the reloading world uses a roll crimp.
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Old November 23, 2012, 11:30 PM   #7
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I load the 300 grain XTP with 20 grains* of H-110/Win 296 and use a CCI 350 primer**. H-110/Win 296 is a much cleaner burning powder than 2400. That makes for a stout load, but its accurate and deep penetrating. I use them sparingly in my two old S&Ws and even in my Ruger SBH, because of my old hand.

I'm not sure about reduced loads, I never use them. I like slow burning, case filling powder in the .44 Magnum.

*Hodgdon lists 19 grains of H-110/296 as max, so approach with caution.
**H-110/296 needs a magnum primer to insure good ignition.

PS: the 300 grain XTP, is one of the best .44 Magnum projectiles available in my opinion. For hunting and SD.
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Old November 23, 2012, 11:49 PM   #8
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Btw... im loading for a S&W 629-4. If that changes anything.. lemme know.

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Old November 24, 2012, 08:36 AM   #9
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All good answers so far. I load .44 mag. and have done the 300 gr. XTP. But, for self-defense I would choose a round that has less recoil. The .44 mag. at it's least load is quite a bit for SD. I would choose a 180 or 210 gr. bullet and find a moderate load.
The max-max loads with 300 gr. bullets are heavy recoiling and, for me, very tiring to use. Plus it takes more time to bring back down on target making is less suitable for SD.
For bear, just hope he isn't too close for that second shot to get placed properly. Shooting at the sun isn't going to save you from bruin.
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Old November 24, 2012, 08:48 AM   #10
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I like the Alliant MP-300 with the 300gr XTP. Need to go to alliant web site for load data.
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Old November 24, 2012, 12:48 PM   #11
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Per the Dillon website, all their revolver dies use the accu-crimp die.

The accu-crimp is a two-stage crimp die. It starts with a taper crimp, which is sufficient for lighter loads. If a firmer crimp is needed, adjust the die down further. This applies a roll crimp on top of the taper crimp, giving a firm grip on the projectile.

You will want the roll crimp.

Dana
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Old November 24, 2012, 01:46 PM   #12
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Ok.. Kool. Thanx Buddy. Ill try post some pix latee of a dummy round i made and yall can lemme know if more is needed.

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Old November 24, 2012, 05:21 PM   #13
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Ok.. Here's a couple photos of what I have created. Theyre .44 Magnum Hornady XTP HP 300gr Projectiles with CCI #350 Magnum Primers and 9.5gr of Titegroup and Winchester WW Stamped Brass. Im seating to an OAL of 1.590 (Hornady Manual says 1.600 for Max OAL but I always go a bit under, a habit from loading for finicky semi autos) and im crimping to .455 with a very slight roll. The photos show what ive done, lemme know if more is needed or everything is in order to rock and roll!! Again, Thanx for the help.


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Old November 24, 2012, 06:13 PM   #14
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You're on the right path. If you have any trouble with bullets in the unfired chambers backing out under recoil, then you need even more crimp.
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Old November 24, 2012, 06:20 PM   #15
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Thanx.. im pretty sure that would be obvious to notice if they were seperating and easy to fix too!

Last edited by DASHZNT; November 24, 2012 at 06:26 PM.
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Old November 24, 2012, 08:28 PM   #16
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I could be wrong but it looks like you still have some bell on the case!
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Old November 24, 2012, 08:51 PM   #17
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No.. theres no bell in the case at all. Its straight and then just slightly curves inward at the end by the 2nd cannelure.. i even measured to make sure.
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Old November 24, 2012, 10:21 PM   #18
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This pic is a good illustration of what a roll crimp should look like. As Unclenick said, you're on the right track and your crimp is okay, as long as the recoil doesn't cause any problems.
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Old November 24, 2012, 11:41 PM   #19
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Kool... Thanx Buddy. Mine are very close to that if not the same. Ill see how they run and probably add slightly more just for good measure but it looks like im there!

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Old November 25, 2012, 10:32 AM   #20
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I think what Mike saw was just the shadow around the edge of the mouth at the cannelure. Trick of the lighting.

When you first shoot the full power loads, look carefully at how much cannelure is exposed as you are loading. Check a couple of the remaining rounds after each shot until you finish the cylinder, looking to see whether the cannelure starts to come up. The main thing you are trying to avoid is a bullet nose that recoil brings out beyond the end of the cylinder and thereby jams cylinder rotation.

This happens in revolvers because the recoil pushes on the cylinder and the back of the cylinder pushes on the rim of the case. Inertia tries to keep the bullet in place while the rim is pushed back. It's sort of like "pantsing" the bullet. The heavier the bullet or the lighter the revolver the more likely this is to happen. More bullet mass has more inertia and a lighter gun recoils harder and more sharply than a heavy one. I have a friend who owns a super light weight titanium alloy snubby in .45 Colt. This fellow is a big guy with beefy mitts, but he said he can't shoot any bullet heavier than 200 grains in this flyweight or the unfired rounds will back out and jam the cylinder no matter how heavily he crimps and no matter how rigidly he grips the frame. Commercial 250 grain ammo does the same thing.

In magazine fed pistols, the opposite occurs, as nothing pushes on the rims of the cases in the magazine. However, recoil drives the front of the magazine against the bullet noses, tending to push them in. This is something a taper crimp is good enough to prevent, as the case has lower inertial mass than the bullet to drive against.
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Old November 25, 2012, 03:41 PM   #21
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I use a redding profile crimp die - but if you're looking for a number, try 0.4500/0.4505 - it'll hold crimp under heavy recoil.
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Old November 25, 2012, 04:58 PM   #22
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One thing to consider with magnum cartridges - the crimp you see in factory loads fills the entire cannelure to ensure consistent ignition. In using H-110/296, heavy bullet pulls are essential (combo of tight neck and heavy crimp).
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Old November 25, 2012, 08:14 PM   #23
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Ok.. Range Update!!!
I went to the range with 18 rounds of the new hott stuff and was very impressed with the results. They shot very accurate no difference than my less hotter target loads at 7.0gr of titgroup as well!! There was no issue with bullets leaving their seat so the crimp was sufficient, although a smidge mkre could never hurt, better safe than sorry as I always say. Now the primers were fine as well, no signs of over pressure. The one thing I did notice was the cases were firmly in the chambers and needed some "persuading" to eject the empty cases. Pressure is definitely up there to make that happen but from everything I seen, all signs point to AOK!

After that, i ran through 250-300 rounds of the lighter target ammo i made awhile back because I wasnt gonna goto the range for 18shots, haha. And the stress relief is priceless!!

Now, that being said.. Im always looking to improve so any advice is greatly appreciated... lemme know your thoughts.

Thank You.
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Old November 26, 2012, 08:46 AM   #24
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To me, in revolvers, sticky extraction is a sign to back down.
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Old November 26, 2012, 10:40 AM   #25
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Yup. That's the rule. You creep up the charge until extraction just starts to get sticky, then back the charge weight down 5%.

Sticky extraction means the steel in the cylinder is stretching past the elastic limit of the less elastic brass. When it returns to shape it squeezes down on the stretched brass. Even though the cylinder steel survived this, it indicates you are stretching it enough to shorten its life by fatiguing it more rapidly than normal, plus it leaves you no headroom for charge weight error by your powder measure.
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