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Old November 24, 2012, 10:23 AM   #26
Old 454
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Consider when purchaasing a CZ:

In my area when I go to the used gun case and look at the 9MM and the .40S&W I can find them in Springfield, H&K, Kahr,Sig, etc.. However what I dont see is the CZ line of them. I think that this is a good indicator that people buy them and keep them.

I personaly own the CZ75 P-07 Duty and just love it, its reliable and faily lite never had feeding issues with any factory or hand loaded ammo.

I have owned a few of the EAA witnesses in 9MM, 10MM and .45acp. they are very nice guns and won't break the bank buying one. Thier reliable and feel nice in the hand.

Hope this helps
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Old November 24, 2012, 10:30 AM   #27
Jim Watson
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I would (DID!) stick with the original caliber of 9mm P.
Unless you have a specific need for .40, the 9mm will kick less, cost less, and give you more tries per magazine.
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Old November 24, 2012, 10:44 AM   #28
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.40 vs 9 mm

I have had a 9 in XD9. Fun to shoot; but I am wanting something with more penetration in the event I need something as a back up hog auto-loader. I know from ballistics that .40 has more penetration. My only concern is the recoil. That is why is I am looking at the CZ75B in .40. I feel that the weight would reduce recoil compared to the M&P .40.
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Old November 24, 2012, 10:53 AM   #29
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75B in .40 is a great choice IMHO but not so easy to obtain... I was looking around recently and found this link for a satin nickle but it's still an order and wait kinda thing:

http://czcustom.com/cz75bsn.aspx
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Old November 24, 2012, 12:09 PM   #30
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There's a lot more to the P01 vs 75 than just a rail and materials.
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Old November 24, 2012, 01:38 PM   #31
Walt Sherrill
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There's a lot more to the P01 vs 75 than just a rail and materials.
A slightly different trigger shape?
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Old November 24, 2012, 01:40 PM   #32
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There's also the issue of the P01 being decocker only, while the C75B has a cocked and locked safety with DA carry option.
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Old November 24, 2012, 01:56 PM   #33
Walt Sherrill
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There's a lot more to the P01 vs 75 than just a rail and materials.
A slightly different trigger shape? The "old" PCR had that.

The Mag release can be reversed on the P-01/P-06, but that's true of the 75B in stainless, and the stainless model also has ambi-safeties and an extended beavertail -- but still the "old" design.

Internally, most of the parts are interchangeable between any of the 75-based guns. Some like the fact that the frame of the P-01/P-06 is forged, but that's not really a true DESIGN change -- as much as a materials change. The older frames (steel or alloy) have been pretty durable.

I'd argue that the P-01/P-06 is just the old design with some new whistles and bells. The P-07 is a newer design, as is the new P-02, which will soon be available in the U.S. The P-02 has the Omega trigger system, but you can get a version of that, custom built, from the Custom Shop, now. It remains to be seen whether the Omega trigger system is an improvement or just a change of functionality; but it is newer.


.
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Old November 24, 2012, 01:59 PM   #34
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Decocker and safety frames are not interchangeable, as the holes are not in the same places.

If you said the only major differences between the CZ75D / PCR and the P01 were rail and materials, I'd agree. The difference between the 75B and the P01 is more significant.

Also, the B model is full-size; the grip frame and length of the P01 are different. Again, compared to the CZ75 Compact or CZ75D / PCR, the size is similar.

Last, the P01 has full-length dust shroud, in addition to the rail.
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Old November 24, 2012, 02:02 PM   #35
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I've read that people have been having a problem with the EAA Witness guns having cracked slides and such. From what I have read it is mostly in the higher calibers on the polymer frame. Has anyone heard about this?
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Old November 24, 2012, 07:03 PM   #36
Walt Sherrill
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Last, the P01 has full-length dust shroud, in addition to the rail.
You've repeated much of what I wrote earlier... My point was that the claim that the P-01 was a "newer" design was not correct. It's a variant, but not a new design.

Substitute the 75BD for the 75B for the comparison with the P-01 and see what you find... The BD is not new.

The ONLY real differences between the P-01 and the PCR is the P-01's forged frame with its longer dustcover and accessory rail. The PCR has been around for years, so it's hard to claim that the P-01 is a newer design. As I understand it, internally, the two guns are identical. (The P-01's forged frame is arguably stronger, but the cast frames don't have a reputation for failure.) The two guns even share barrels.

The P-01 does have a reversible mag release, but so does the full-size stainless 75B; the stainless models also have an extended beavertail and ambidextrous safeties -- which are also found on the SA models. I'd argue that those changes hardly equate to a "newer design", but are more an indication of an existing design with ongoing tweaks.

CZ considers them all to be 75B model variants.

Re: your other comments: I wrote earlier that MOST (not all) of the internals of all the 75b-based guns are interchangeable. You obviously can't swap safety parts for decocker parts, or use a compact barrel or magazine in a full-size gun. And the hammers are different in the decocker models -- they have only one hammer hook, as one was removed to make room for the decocker mechanism. But the majority of the other internal parts (not affected by gun size of safety/decocker mechanism) are the same.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; November 24, 2012 at 07:43 PM.
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Old November 24, 2012, 07:26 PM   #37
chris in va
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Again...

Recessed takedown pin
Extended slide release
Extended mag release
Beveled magwell
Rubber magazine baseplate for better ergos
'Melt' treatment on all leading edges
Concave slide serrations

Look, not trying to split hairs here but to say there isn't much difference between a P01 and 75b is a stretch.
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Old November 24, 2012, 07:50 PM   #38
Walt Sherrill
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The 75B SA or Stainless 75B are quite different from the standard 75B, too, but does that make them 'newer' designs? Or, are they just different?

Your claim that the P-01 was a newer design was the point I was responding to -- not that there haven't been changes. Some of those changes are seen by many as improvements. But, the PCR is very similar in most respects, and almost identical internally. And it's an old design. What you call "newer" (and, implicitly, better) are features that not everyone wants. They are TWEAKS to a good design; enhancements.

The difference in this discussion is how we're each using the term "DESIGN."

The things you've described above are changes some custom gunsmiths make to existing guns to enhance them. Most wouldn't call the guns thus modified NEW DESIGNS because of those enhancements, but would like what was done.

.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; November 24, 2012 at 08:34 PM.
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Old November 24, 2012, 09:20 PM   #39
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Quote:
Look, not trying to split hairs here but to say there isn't much difference between a P01 and 75b is a stretch.
For someone who was not trying, you did a good job. But the real good news is now we have a list of the cosmetic differences.
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Old November 30, 2012, 01:11 PM   #40
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I have heard the Armalite version and Baby Eagle clone are good
For what it's worth, the Armalite clone is made with a forged steel frame and slide while the CZ 75 B has a cast frame and forged slide. My CZ 85 variant has performed flawlessly thus far and I have yet to find a semi-auto pistol (and I have quite a few ) that feels and handles better in my hand than the CZ 75 does.
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Old November 30, 2012, 01:22 PM   #41
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The difference in this discussion is how we're each using the term "DESIGN."
And I think that's the salient point to be made in the discussion regarding "design". Design in my estimation has to do with the basic functioning properties of the pistol. Different configurations relating to slide releases, magwells, mag releases, slide serrations and such are merely cosmetic and/or enhanced handling bells and whistles that have nothing to do with design in the strictest sense.
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Old November 30, 2012, 01:28 PM   #42
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Maybe I just received a lemon, but the CZ 75 B I had had a lot of problems. I finally sold it.

Problems aside, it bothers me how many machine marks their pistols have on the inside.

CZ is a sloppy company in my opinion.
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Old November 30, 2012, 01:34 PM   #43
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can't find cz75b anywhere in stores!
Rumor is that CZ had a large contract to fill. My son was waiting for a CZ75BD since May. There were no B or BD's to be found for a long time. Cabela's got some B's in a couple of months ago, the shop we use was still empty until about 3 weeks ago. Then they finally had a case of CZ75B's again and the long waited for BD.

FYI - The BD has the decocker instead of the safety (which many including myself find worthless on a DA/SA gun). The BD also had a very cool dull black finish to it and the B's all ahd a sort of glossy finish. The finish on his CZ75BD is really nice.

Keep looking, I think the 75B's might be starting to show up again. As for my Opinion, it's really nice. It's my 2nd favorite gun . I do like it enough that I'm saving for the CZ75 compact myself.

Xfire .... awesome looking CZ there! I always love the stainless with black grips look.
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Old November 30, 2012, 01:40 PM   #44
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I've had a 75B for about 14 years, and a PCR for 12 years, plus the Kadet Kit. They've been great, and I carry the lightweight alloy PCR for CCW.
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Old November 30, 2012, 06:29 PM   #45
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Problems aside, it bothers me how many machine marks their pistols have on the inside.

CZ is a sloppy company in my opinion.
It's a marketing/productivity approach -- a way to keep processing costs lower by not making cosmetic enhancements that don't affect function.

None of those machine marks occur where they interfere with the proper functioning of the weapon. CZ also makes blued models, in addition to the polycoat or nickel finishes, but the high-gloss blue guns run about $100 or more than the cheaper polycoat-finished ones. The blued finish requires a good bit more handwork, as a blued finish is less forgiving than one that is has a manganese phosphate base and polymer coating.

If you like the CZ style but don't like the CZ's lack of finish refinement, seek out a Sphinx. The kind of finish you seem to associate with a good firearm comes with a high price attached, and it doesn't ALWAYS mean you've gotten a better weapon. (In the case of the Sphinx -- I've had several -- it probably does.)
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Old November 30, 2012, 06:43 PM   #46
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I have the all steel Baby Eagle which is a CZ clone and its by far my favorite gun to shoot. I walk away smiling every time I get done with it at the line! It's the old IMI version.
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Old November 30, 2012, 06:50 PM   #47
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""Sigs are for people who don't know about CZs"."

And from years ago when a new CZ-75B Military was selling for $300-$349 with 2 hicaps...

"The best $600 pistol you can buy for $350."
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Old November 30, 2012, 07:22 PM   #48
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I went shooting yesterday and shot my CZ 75B and my SR9c the CZ just is so much easier to shoot accurately. The SR9c is a fine gun and shoots well but the CZ is in it's own league.
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Old November 30, 2012, 08:11 PM   #49
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I own a CZ-75b and have for years, among a number of other autos. My own opinion is that it's a decent firearm, but it's far from my favorite due to the trigger pull (gritty), the long trigger reach, and the distinctively "average" accuracy compared with my other guns.

Before everyone jumps all over me and talks about how some firearms work better for different individuals, their CZ has a great trigger pull, etc., I'll simply make the statement "to each his own." Do I still own my CZ? Yes. Do I enjoy shooting it? Yes. Would I choose it over my Beretta 92fs, PPQ, Hi Power, or any of my other 9's? Not necessarily.
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Old November 30, 2012, 08:27 PM   #50
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Quote:
I own a CZ-75b and have for years, among a number of other autos. My own opinion is that it's a decent firearm, but it's far from my favorite due to the trigger pull (gritty), the long trigger reach, and the distinctively "average" accuracy compared with my other guns.
Try getting a trigger job done and putting on a short reach trigger.

Sure its a little more money, but if you like the way the gun feels otherwise, it may turn it into a gun you really love.

As far as accuracy, everyone is different, so maybe you don't shoot CZs well, or a lack of trigger time on that pistol could be the reason. I found my 2 CZs to be very accurate.

Not trying to dispute your claims... every manufacturer has a bad one slip out from time to time.
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