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Old November 21, 2012, 05:18 AM   #1
therealdeal
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gun shop employee shoots customer in the back

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/21...est=latestnews

I wasn't sure whether to put this one in law&civil rights or not.

Clearly this is a negligent discharge in my opinion even though the article lists it as an accidental discharge. Either way, I am usually one to hope someone can avoid prosecution or arrest when accidents occur, but I was wondering how fellow TFL members felt about this instance? Should this gun store employee face charges. I don't think he should face severe, drastic charges here. I just feel in this instance he should maybe at least receive some kind of citation or misdemeanor summons. I was hoping for some more thoughts on the issue from fellow members.
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Old November 21, 2012, 05:48 AM   #2
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I would think they would charge him something like they would charge a reckless driver who injured a person.
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Old November 21, 2012, 07:26 AM   #3
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could go either way

Yeah RobertInIowa, it will be interesting to see how this one plays out.
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Old November 21, 2012, 07:35 AM   #4
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This may hinge on whether it was his firearm, or if he was unloading one brought in by a customer for repair, trade, or whatever. Even then, it should have been pointed elsewhere. For all we know, it could have been a riccochet.
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Old November 21, 2012, 07:37 AM   #5
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Accident?

Let's see now. Handling a loaded weapon in the store, muzzle not pointed in a safe direction, finger on the trigger? Evidently didn't know what he was doing and proceeded anyway. Accident waiting to happen maybe but definitely not an accident. Negligent discharge and endangering the public in my opinion. Not to mention stupid! He needs to be fined, put on probation and find another line of work.
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Old November 21, 2012, 07:51 AM   #6
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throttleup

Quote:
Let's see now. Handling a loaded weapon in the store, muzzle not pointed in a safe direction, finger on the trigger? Evidently didn't know what he was doing and proceeded anyway. Accident waiting to happen maybe but definitely not an accident. Negligent discharge and endangering the public in my opinion. Not to mention stupid! He needs to be fined, put on probation and find another line of work.
yeah accidents happen, but this is ridiculous for a number of factors(some mentioned by you). It is good the victim seems to be in a situation where he can get thru this. He'll probably have a lot going thru his mind this Thanksgiving.....
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Old November 21, 2012, 08:02 AM   #7
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Shot in the back at the age of 65 with a .45. That can't be good. I hope his prospects for full recovery are good though.
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Old November 21, 2012, 08:20 AM   #8
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Way too many variables left out of the news report to render any kind of valid opinion.
-what operation was the employee performing?
-what kind of firearm?
-where was the victim?
-was the employee alone?
That's a good start.
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Old November 21, 2012, 08:53 AM   #9
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No variables required...fact: employee handling loaded firearm...fact: firearm is discharged = negligence...fact: innocent bystander is harmed = responsibility.

No pass...he has to take responsibility.
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Old November 21, 2012, 12:38 PM   #10
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I've been at my LGS when customers have brought in intended "trade-in" weapons that turned out to be loaded.

Should the employees treat all weapons as loaded? Yes.

Would such a case be a potentially mitigating factor? Yes, at least in my opinion.

What the employee was doing at the time should definitely be a factor for criminal charges, but may not be as much of a factor for civil suits, again in my opinion.
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Old November 21, 2012, 12:53 PM   #11
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that is a good point
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Old November 21, 2012, 01:43 PM   #12
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It is good the victim seems to be in a situation where he can get thru this.
We don't know that. He had to be airlifted out. That's more than a scratch.

Yes, the employee should be charged with a crime. Yes, he should be open to a civil suit. I don't care if he's "one of ours" or not; his negligence caused grievous harm to another person.

Had I been the victim, I'd be pursuing both options, same as I would if the employee hit me with his car or injured me with an errant power tool.
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Old November 21, 2012, 02:57 PM   #13
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Why was the gun loaded to begin with and why was he pointing it towards the customer and the street. That man is toast.
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Old November 21, 2012, 03:05 PM   #14
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Well, the employee is "supposed to be" a professional. Anyone going into that store has a right to expect them to at least know how NOT to shoot the customers. Besides all the other reasons, it has to be bad for business when someone is air lifted from your store. Hopefully the customer comes out of this as good as posssible.
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Old November 21, 2012, 03:12 PM   #15
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Broke one or more of the four rules. Could have been avoided. Civil liability six figures plus.
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Old November 21, 2012, 05:11 PM   #16
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I suppose that is one way to keep the customer from leaving without a sale.


So many things wrong with that situation. I consider it complete negligence
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Old November 21, 2012, 05:13 PM   #17
1 old 0311-1
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Looks like the store is going to have a new owner.
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Old November 21, 2012, 05:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmortimer
Broke one or more of the four rules.
Which one? I'd say he broke at least four out of four. Lemme see:

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

Rule III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET AND YOU ARE READY TO FIRE

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT LIES BEYOND IT


Check. IMHO he got 'em all.
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Old November 21, 2012, 05:18 PM   #19
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Seemingly, yes all four
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Old November 21, 2012, 05:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Anyone going into that store has a right to expect them to at least know how NOT to shoot the customers.
That's going in the next revision of my employee handbook.
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Old November 21, 2012, 05:47 PM   #21
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Criminal charges or not, I'd be willing to bet there will be a new minority owner at Copper County Sporting Arms after the civil trials over.
Any takers?
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Old November 21, 2012, 10:44 PM   #22
Apom
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Get a lawyer. Sue them for everything. Enjoy a workfree life afterwards.
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Old November 21, 2012, 11:23 PM   #23
Edward429451
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Quote:
Anyone going into that store has a right to expect them to at least know how NOT to shoot the customers.
That's not going to look good on his Resume. Shooting someone is easy. It's harder to not shoot someone.
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Old November 22, 2012, 12:12 AM   #24
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Didn't read posts (on mobile device)

Anyone think the gun shop may be held liable for not training employees and having safe weapons handling practices in place. Premises liability....
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Old November 22, 2012, 04:44 PM   #25
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Some people don't understand the definition of negligence. To meet legal requirements for negligence the store employee had to be doing something that he knew was dangerous, or should have known would be dangerous and did not take precautions. The fact that he was trying to unload the gun is evidence that he was taking precautions to prevent an accident.

Does not say how the accident happened, but there are enough facts present to probably rule out negligence. Had the person handling the gun been under the influence of drugs or alcohol, had he been dry firing the gun without checking the chamber, had he given the gun to a 9 year old kid to unload, had he knowingly pointed what he thought was an unloaded gun at someone it would be negligence. To have a gun fire unintentionally while trying to make it safe is simply an accident.

There is almost never a criminal charge in an accident, but that does not mean the person who causes one is not responsible in a civil trial, and there probably will be one here.

Too many on the internet gun forums throw the negligence word around much too freely.
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