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Old November 21, 2012, 02:47 PM   #26
BigJimP
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Everyone should carry the gun - and the caliber ....they shoot the best.

While I'm ok with a 9mm...I feel better with a .40S&W ...and a lot better with a .45 acp...( but I'm old school) .../ but if I didn't shoot the guns I have in .45 acp the best ...then I'd carry something else.

I will also practice a lot with a 9mm ( same size, same mfg of gun) that I carry in .45 acp ....even though I reload ( its still cheaper - and less abusive on the arthritis in my hands). But I also go to my local range 2 or 3 times a week ...because I like shooting..
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Old November 21, 2012, 02:54 PM   #27
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I like guns from all major manufacturers in calibers from .22 to .45.
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Old November 21, 2012, 03:16 PM   #28
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I'm getting more and more fond of the idea of 22 Long Rifle as days go by...
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Old November 21, 2012, 03:50 PM   #29
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I like to shoot a .45 every now and then but I'm more partial to the 9mm. I'm quicker on follow-up shots and more accurate all around. I feel more comfortable in my ability to place a shot with the 9mm than the .45. I also shoot quite a bit of .380 too.

I will say that as far as "fun" shooting I prefer the .22 and I carry a .22mag in my pocket nearly all the time.
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Old November 21, 2012, 04:08 PM   #30
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Or have fun with it. I enjoy the trash-talk between 1911 and glock, or 9mm and .45 when it's good natured and friendly. I also enjoy it when it's clever... the stickers and shirts that say things like "45. Because shooting twice is silly!" and what not.
Like this?

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Old November 21, 2012, 07:03 PM   #31
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Yes, yes, I ran into the same thing this week with a couple of .45 fans in the office. I mentioned that I like the 10mm and just got vacant stares...

One bonus to the 10, the projectiles are cheaper than the .45 ACP, so it's actually cheaper for me to reload...powder is cheap, it's lead that's expensive.
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Old November 21, 2012, 07:07 PM   #32
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Heck with that, its the BRASS that's expensive. I'm jumping through all kinds of hoops trying to figure out how to catch that stuff out of my Sig...
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Old November 21, 2012, 08:46 PM   #33
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imma snob i guess

9mm is just a 45 set to stun.

seriously though i prefer colt 45acp or .357mag, but i love my cz phantom 9mm
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Old November 22, 2012, 12:01 AM   #34
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Well thankfully you're safe now here on the Internet. There are no caliber snobs here.
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Old November 22, 2012, 02:19 AM   #35
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When I decided to get back into firearms I did a LOT of research about muzzle energy, the flawed Marshall-whatever data regarding effectiveness, and read a lot of gun rags.

I decided on a .40, as it seemed to have almost the effectiveness of a .45, but with 2-3 more rounds in the gun than the .45 1911 [I'm in california: some had more, out of state]. I decided that 10 rounds of 9mm or 10 rounds of .40, and the .40 would be a better self-defense handgun.

I'd been away from firearms for 12 years or more, and it wasn't a regular thing before that.

I bought a S&W Model 410 [what I could afford]. I couldn't get a group size under 2 feet at 15 yards. I developed a HORRIBLE flinch. I started 'hankering' for something that felt better.

I wound up buying a .45acp [ruger P97: it is still surprisingly reliable and accurate] and a 9mm [baby eagle], as I had the money.

I was more accurate with either of them than the .40.

I sold the .40 in 2002 and kept the other calibers, expanding to include .357mag and .22lr.

I still had a horrible flinch that it was hard to compensate for, but my group sizes were now closer to 1 foot at 25 yards.

I only had outdoor ranges to use, so no ability to work from 7 yards and out.

Then I took a 5 year break due to moving/marriage/kids.

When I went back, I used my .22lr a LOT and then the 9 and .45 and .357, all at an indoor range starting a 7 yards.

My group sizes are now getting respectable, but what I found was that I shoot 9mm and .45acp better than .40.

I've recently picked up a .40 for a great price. I find that I shoot it with acceptable accuracy, but not as comfortably as 9mm, .45acp or my magnums. Ironically, I am more comfortable with 50 rounds of .44mag than with 50 rounds of .40s&w.

I agree that anything is better than nothing. I agree that it is better to hit someone with a 9mm in a critical area 8 out of 10 shots, than to hit them in a non-critical area [at best] with 4 out of 10 shots from a caliber that is too powerful for you. I believe I am more accurate and can recover my target/sight picture for a follow-up shot much easier on 9mm than .40 or .357mag [or .44mag]. I am faster on second or third shots on the 9mm than the .45acp, but not by as much of a margin.

I think that, for me, in california, 10 rounds of 9mm are not a major reason to skip 8 or 10 rounds of .45 [or of .40]. If I lived in a 'free' state, where I could have 16 round mags for my Baby Eagle in a carry gun, I might favor that over a 1911 with an 8 rounder [or S&W M&P with 10 rounds], but, comparing 10 rounds of .40 or 9mm to 8-10 rounds [1911 or M&P.45] of .45 and it is about shot placement to me.

If I can't hit it, I shouldn't carry it.

I will say, if I had a CCW, I'd have a 9mm for summer use [lighter clothing I am wearing, as well as bad guys], probably a .45 for winter, and a .357mag for trail hiking [cougars, etc]. Even though I'm better with the .40, I still find it the caliber I am worst with.

I'm no caliber snob, but I was for a while. Now I am biased in favor of what works for me on a regular basis. And, with my hyper-extended left wrist, 9mm left handed [single handed] is controlably, but the others are harder to control with my left hand.
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Old November 22, 2012, 04:29 AM   #36
Redhawk5.5+P+
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LOL No way

I don't think you walked into the store with a sign saying I'm stupid.

For real, did you just make this up for conversational sakes?

I have from 22lr 762x25 .357 44mag 20ga .38spl 10mm (G20) along with 9X25mm Dillon.

My carry is a S&W 638 Airweight snub .38spl and my nightstand gun is a CZ75 9mm, and I'm almost a gun snob against "cheap guns. But hey...... sometimes $$ isn't there.
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Old November 22, 2012, 04:36 AM   #37
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Buy the way, my back up, or NY reload is my 44mag loaded hot. I call it my doomsday gun.
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Old November 22, 2012, 07:52 AM   #38
Hal
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One bonus to the 10, the projectiles are cheaper than the .45 ACP, so it's actually cheaper for me to reload...powder is cheap, it's lead that's expensive
Out of curiosity.....how many times can you resize the 10mm brass?
I have some S&B .45acp brass that's been resized a couple dozen times before I stopped keeping track.
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Old November 22, 2012, 08:39 AM   #39
chaim
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I have handguns, and use them for either CCW or home defense, in 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, .380, .38spl (+P), .357mag, and .45LC. I will probably buy a .327 Federal Mag. I don't personally care for it, but there is nothing wrong with .357SIG either.

There is a place for every major defensive caliber. They all have different advantages and disadvantages, and all 9mm and up will have pretty comparable success in stopping attackers with proper ammo selection. There really isn't enough difference to be worth an argument.
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Old November 22, 2012, 08:42 AM   #40
Redhawk5.5+P+
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Out of curiosity.....how many times can you resize the 10mm brass?
Not 10mm S&B?

I have some S&B .45acp brass that's been resized a couple dozen times before I stopped keeping track.

Out of curiosity, what's the ID and OD in per ratio in direct comparison between the two in shell thickness at what point?.

TBS, Sorry didn't mean to make you think about whale thickness of each at every point that gives its structural integrative at certain points of pressures?

Point?

Try to take a 9mm Luger (.355") and put it in a .357 (.357") revolver chamber.

Last edited by Redhawk5.5+P+; November 22, 2012 at 08:49 AM.
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Old November 22, 2012, 08:55 AM   #41
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I have owned 22lr, 25 acp, 32acp,380 acp,9mm,40 sw,45acp, 38sp,357 mag ,41mag ,44mag . Carried them and shot them for years .Then figured out what worked best for the intended purpose is the best. For me 22lr or 32acp pocket 357mag or 40 sw . Shoot it with the best ammo you can perform with a miss is a miss.
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Old November 22, 2012, 09:03 AM   #42
dayman
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I've yet to find a caliber I don't like to shoot. That being said I usually stick to 9mm because of price (and availability) of practice ammo.

Clearly it's not as powerful as some other rounds, but it's certainly powerful enough for it's intended purpose.

Some people are too concerned with "power". I wonder if these are the same people who drive a Dodge 2500 to commute from their condo in the 'burbs to their office. My 9mm gets the job done, just like my accord gets me to work.

As far as accuracy goes, I'm usually the weakest link in the gun-ammo-shooter chain, so I've never noticed
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Old November 22, 2012, 09:18 AM   #43
JimPage
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I have several handguns. My preference to have in a fight is the .45, but I must admit that I end up carrying my Bersa .380 more than anything else because of the weight. For some strange reason most places I go in public don't like it when my pants are pulled down by my .45.
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Old November 22, 2012, 09:38 AM   #44
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Love the jokers that discount what they've likely never had experience with or have tried and blame any issues on the gun/ammo and never their own inabilities. "It's the gun, not me" syndrome.
Also...never get a good answer regarding the 9mm inaccuracy when presented with various hi-end target models that are chambered in 9mm. Hmmm, the Sig210 comes to mind first. Gotta love armchair award winners.
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Old November 22, 2012, 10:04 AM   #45
Denezin
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Im a .45 man myself but 9mm isnt inaccurate and it is adequate for SD. I choose not to use it cause i can handle my guns in .45 just as well as a 9mm. Plus im not a more capacity person.
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Old November 22, 2012, 10:26 AM   #46
Hal
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Point?
Point being - he mentioned lead being the least costly component.
In my 35 plus years of reloading, I've found that the brass is the most costly individual component.

Reloading low pressure rounds, like the .45acp and .38 spl and .45LC and .44 spl. allow for much longer case life/more reloads before the brass can no longer be resized w/out the case neck splitting.
All of these calibers operate at less than 20,000 pis. A couple, the .45acp and the .45 LC, are around 13,000 psi.

Higher pressure rounds, such as the .357 magnum, .44magnum, 9mmLuger, .40S&W and 10mm, operate in the 35,000 psi range - w/the 10mm going up to 37,500 psi.

Higher pressures = more case expansion = shorter case life.
Shorter case life = increased cost since the brass can't be used as much.

I'm simply curious how many reloads he can get per case before the case can't be reused.
It has nothing to do with the dimensions of the case - it's all about case life.
The more often you have to replace the brass, the higher the cost.
That can be offset somewhat by a lower price per individual bullet.

Berry's sells a plated .401 155 grain bullet for 33.78 per 250
Berry's sells a plated .452 230 grain bullet for 40.04 per 250

The .40/10mm is $.135 per round to reload as an individual component.
The .45 is $.160 per round as an individual component.
That's a savings of $.025 (approx) per round for the bullet component.

Starline sells 10mm brass for 85.50 per 500
Starline sells .45acp brass for 85.00 per 500

The 10 mm brass component is .171 per round.
The .45acp brass component is .17 per round.

The bullet/brass component is:
.30 for the 10mm
.33 for the 45acp
1000 10 mm loads would run $300
1000 .45acp loads would run $330

If you took the same 100 cases of each and loaded 1000 finished rounds and you got 10 usesout of each case, then the 10mm is a clear money saver.
OTOH - if you only get 10 uses out of the 10mm and you get double that number out of the .45acp, then the .45acp is the clear money saver.

The next 1000 rounds of .45acp will run $160
The next 1000 round of 10mm will run $300 - due to having to buy brass once again.

Bear in mind - this is both greatly simplified and does not account for lost brass nor does it take into account the cost of powder.
I'm using Starline bras as an example and Berry's bullets as an example because that's an apples to apples.

My actual .45acp loads run quite a bit less than the above since I use a .452" lead bullet.
Berry's sells a 230 gr hard cast lead bullet for 61.24 per 500 or - .122 per round.
That would skew the .45 price & make it cheaper.
OTOH - the OP may very well cast his own 10mm bullets, which would reduce his cost to pretty much whatever he had to pay for scrounged lead & the cost of electricity to run the melting pot.
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Old November 22, 2012, 10:32 AM   #47
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Shoot. You should have been around in the late 70's & 80's. I tell you, 9mm's and 38 weren't good enough to use for squirrel's. They'd take the gun away from you and beat you to death with it. Of course there weren't many 9mm's back then at all.

Squirrels were tougher back then.
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Old November 22, 2012, 11:33 AM   #48
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I too am a caliber snob. I prefer .45 above all others although I sometimes carry other caliber pistols / revolvers. BUT I do own a 9mm and with modern ammo being the quality that it is I feel well protected carrying it.
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Old November 22, 2012, 12:11 PM   #49
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I get a kick out of the 44 mag tillthedayIdie guys. You've all seen the 44 vs 45 Colt posts. They get fiestier than the 9 mm vs 45 ACP posts. They get so annoying that I don't even want to read them. Either caliber can send a projectile clean through a small moon. In doing so, they will prove themselves to be more of a man than the guy holding the gun.
The .429 is a fine round but it's not a 44 caliber and should not be advertised as such. However, that statement alone is enough to send 44 fans into a tizzy and get me labeled as a hater. Still, they named it a 44 so that's what it's called.

You can also twist this thread into Glock fanboys vs the world but that's a deep dark hole we shouldn't get into. Like the 44 vs 45 thing no good will come of it.

When it comes to the typical Ford vs Chevy battle I find myself a Mopar fan.

I have no interest in fad or fashion. The hot trinket is seldom on my list of must haves. I like what works for me. Long ago I found a grip that makes a 1911 feel like an old friend. Since then, I started using 45 calibers just so I could keep the bullet selection simple while reloading. That blossomed into 45 Colt, 454 Casull, and 460 S&W. Despite that selection of big bores I still carry a 642 in 38 spl. It's all a matter of convenience.

I guess it's time to start another thread about gun store Rangers and how they know far more about what works for you without knowing anything about you.
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Old November 22, 2012, 07:09 PM   #50
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I also frequently carry a 642 .38 loaded with +P. It's small, light weight, accurate and easily powerful enough to carry with confidence.
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