The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 24, 2011, 02:32 PM   #1
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 4,373
Brand New SIG P229: Gaps in Slide Finish

All,
Recently I had purchased a brand new SIG P229 SAS gen 2. I noticed there were gaps in the finish in the slide inside where the barrel sits. They are on both sides of the slide about 1/2" wide. There are also a number of rainbow colored swirls and circular almost dowel marks on the top part of the side but again inside. After talking to some on these forums I decided to call about it just to ask some questions.

In the effort of fairness I went ahead and called SIG about the gaps in the finish on the inside of my slide. I spoke with Victoria, if that means anything to you idk one person from another. She told me this was perfectly normal and was a result of the drying clamps during the application process. I asked her why it wasn't present in older SIGs. She replied, "Well all processes change eventually". She also told me that they don't do the nitron application in house, that they actually send it out to a vendor. There wasn't a hint of apology or that there was anything wrong. I called during a peak time so they were busy, but it was apparent at least to me that I wasn't the first person that called and that she had no desire to talk about it further. I'm not trying to be unfair, but in all honesty she was a tad rude while I was trying to mind my Ps and Qs. Take it for what you will, I figured I owed them the benefit of the doubt. I hadn't called before because I had heard of the same response on another forum.

However, at the same time I bought this SIG I had bought a regular P229 in 40 cal that did not have the gaps in the finish. When asked about that, Victoria replied, "Well they probably weren't made at the same time". These were both new generation SIGs with the E2 grips with what appeared, at least to me, to be the exact same finish.

Again idk. Just thought I would share. For all I know it really doesn't mean anything. I still love my SIG but if others found the same thing I wanted there to be some record of a response.

Edit: Pics attached

-TR
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN1335.jpg (220.1 KB, 424 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN1336.jpg (226.7 KB, 361 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN1338.jpg (252.5 KB, 337 views)
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams

Last edited by TunnelRat; October 24, 2011 at 08:19 PM.
TunnelRat is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 02:48 PM   #2
WVsig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2010
Location: KY
Posts: 3,046
Post pics...

The unfortunate part of your experience is that Victoria is one of the better CS reps at Sig. If you found her a bit rude you are lucky you did not get someone else. If you asked over on the Sig forum most people would suggest to ask for her by name.

QC is not as consistent as it once was at Sig.
__________________
"Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all..." Sam from Ronin
The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced. -Frank Zappa
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.-Frank Zappa
WVsig is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 03:19 PM   #3
AustinTX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2010
Posts: 1,444
This has been a very common complaint on Sigforum since Sig switched vendors for the Nitron process. Magazine problems have been much more frequent since Sig switched to freaking Checkmate (!) as the OEM magazine supplier as well. The list goes on.

Under the Cohen regime, Exeter seeks out more and more low-cost vendors, who supply lower-quality components, while simultaneously raising the prices of the end product -- even though the end product, while good, is not built nearly to the standards that it was just six or seven years ago. The marketing and accounting types are running the company, and they're trading on Sig Sauer's previously hard-earned reputation to generate greater profit margins on lower-quality products. It's working for now, I suppose, but the present course under Cohen will eventually tarnish Sig's name to a much greater extent than it already has. It's sad, really.
__________________
Beretta Billennium|Billennium|92 Steel I|92 Steel I|92FS|92FS|92FS INOX|92FS INOX|8045F|84BB—SIG P210-5 HF|P210-5|P210-6 HF|P210-6|P210-6|P49—SIG Sauer P226 X-5 L1|P229—HK P7M10|P7M10|USP Elite—Colt Gold Cup NM|Gold Cup NM|Python—Browning Hi-Power—USFA 1910—Mauser Luger 29/70|HSc—S&W M. 41|M. 57|M. 57|M. 48—Freedom Arms M. 83-PG—Walther PPS—Glock 17—Ruger P89DC—CZ 52—FEG ACK—Kahr P380

Last edited by AustinTX; October 24, 2011 at 03:42 PM. Reason: typo
AustinTX is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 03:39 PM   #4
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 4,373
Yeah I was somewhat disappointed , but not much I can do. The gun has functioned pretty darn close to flawless so far, had one failure to return to battery over the weekend that I attributed to the ammo, but not a single hiccup otherwise. In a way it's like a car with a scratch, if it gets stolen I can easily identify it .

I guess it's kind of silly to some, to complain about something cosmetic that I only see when cleaning. Still, I have gone through a number of firearms this year. Browning Hi Powers, Smith M&Ps, Glocks, Walthers, even other SIGs. None of those firearms had those marks, and many of them were almost half the price of my SIG. I didn't say that on the phone, I wasn't trying to pick a fight, but it did occur to me.

As a note about SIG, living in the state they're made in I have friends that work there, both on the factory floor and in the custom shop. All of them would recommend a German made one over an Exeter one, and that makes me sad. From what I hear, so it is hearsay, SIG is currently productng ~ 2000 guns a month while 3 years ago they were doing 800 a month. This is with the same staff and building. SIG will be opening a new factory on Pease AirForce Base next year and hiring some 600 more people. My hope is that things will improve .
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 06:47 PM   #5
seed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2004
Posts: 411
Your best bet is to get an older Sig. I have two from the early-mid 90's and they are incredible works of art and machinery. I have actually considered selling my 239, but after the Cohen era took hold I reconsidered. I will never be able to get a newer built one with the same quality. So even though the 239 has sort of been surpassed in terms of its practical applications, it is still really nice.

Look at private seller listings and you will find some older examples for better prices than new/inferior examples. But it is getting tougher to do as time passes. Already P228's are going up overall and getting gobbled up within a day or two when listed on Calguns...and they are not listed as often lately, it seems. Personally, one thing is for sure for me: as long as Cohen is there and or his trend continues, I will never drop the kind of dough Sig wants on a new one. There are better options out there for the money.
seed is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 07:31 PM   #6
AustinTX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2010
Posts: 1,444
Quote:
I guess it's kind of silly to some, to complain about something cosmetic that I only see when cleaning.
It's not silly at all to complain about this -- or any other example of Exeter's corner-cutting -- when we're talking current Sig retail prices, which are higher than ever.
__________________
Beretta Billennium|Billennium|92 Steel I|92 Steel I|92FS|92FS|92FS INOX|92FS INOX|8045F|84BB—SIG P210-5 HF|P210-5|P210-6 HF|P210-6|P210-6|P49—SIG Sauer P226 X-5 L1|P229—HK P7M10|P7M10|USP Elite—Colt Gold Cup NM|Gold Cup NM|Python—Browning Hi-Power—USFA 1910—Mauser Luger 29/70|HSc—S&W M. 41|M. 57|M. 57|M. 48—Freedom Arms M. 83-PG—Walther PPS—Glock 17—Ruger P89DC—CZ 52—FEG ACK—Kahr P380
AustinTX is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 07:36 PM   #7
WVsig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2010
Location: KY
Posts: 3,046
This is why one should only buy a Sig from a trusted dealer who inspects what they ship or strip the gun you are buying before you transfer it. Too much inconsistency from Exter these days.

It is not that you are not going to get a good pistol it just might not be as perfect as you expect.
__________________
"Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all..." Sam from Ronin
The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced. -Frank Zappa
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.-Frank Zappa
WVsig is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 08:13 PM   #8
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 4,373
You're right. I should have inspected it much better than I did. I was just kind of excited and hadn't heard anything about this sort of thing beforehand. I function checked it but didn't look for cosmetics. The front sight on this model was way to the left too, almost all the way (I know there is a difference between in the center and "centered"). I brought it back and the store did center the sights for me free of charge. The gunsmith said he'd be surprised if I could have hit a barn with it the way it came. The store itself is really nice, had I caught it they would have grabbed me another.

I am adding pics now to the top.
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 08:20 PM   #9
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 4,373
Pics are up.
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 08:39 PM   #10
HKGuns
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 12, 2005
Location: Bora Bora
Posts: 886
Wow, my HK's finish is perfect. You could have had an HK!

I post this not to make you feel worse, but to give you something to compare it to, as Sig and HK are comparatively priced and generally considered to be high quality equals.

The slide on your pistol looks horrible in comparison. Feel free to use the picture if it helps you when talking to Sig again. This is my nearly new P30 after around 50 rounds before cleaning. It isn't an apples to apples comparison, but for the money you spent on your pistol you deserve this level of quality.

Sig should be embarrassed by that hack job.

Edited to add: You can't see the sides very well in this horrible and rushed picture, but rest assured it is all very nice and consistent with what you can make out in the picture.


Last edited by HKGuns; October 24, 2011 at 09:17 PM.
HKGuns is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 08:55 PM   #11
Patriot86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,293
Call up SIG and they should take care of you as long as you are the original owner. PS: SIG's are great pistols, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Its like a car, every now and then something slips through but its how the manufacturer takes care of the issue that counts.
Patriot86 is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 09:33 PM   #12
WVsig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2010
Location: KY
Posts: 3,046
Patriot did you even bother to read the OP? Sig already told him that they think it is perfectly acceptable and will be doing nothing for him.
__________________
"Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all..." Sam from Ronin
The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced. -Frank Zappa
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.-Frank Zappa
WVsig is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 11:10 PM   #13
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 4,373
@HKGuns
Your finish does look quite nice. So does the finish on my $500 Glock 19, Smith M&P and my $650 Walther PPQ (finish is like volcanic glass on this one, amazing). My point isn't that your finish isn't special, but that companies producing far "cheaper" guns in price, and some would argue in quality, are able to produce slides without those marks. For a company that charges what SIG does, it is even more unacceptable at least to me.

@Patriot86
I redirect you to my OP, since you quite obviously didn't read it . Otherwise I agree with your comments. Were SIG willing to fix this it would be a different story.

Again, I still like the gun regardless. But for others thinking about buying one I wanted them to be aware.
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old October 24, 2011, 11:51 PM   #14
HKFan9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2008
Posts: 2,718
Personally I probably wouldn't think twice about it. BUT if it bothers you... its your gun, and your hard earned money.

I would call Sig back and ask them to replace the slide with one that is properly finished. Sure you can catch more bee's with honey... but sometimes getting angry is just.

I don't think it would bother me... but I would EXPECT better from them, and if you paid the cash for it... and it bothers you.. it should be up to them to make it right.
HKFan9 is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 03:32 AM   #15
Toms_2003_Stang
Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2010
Location: Soddy Daisy, TN
Posts: 50
@TunnelRat

If you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay for it?
Toms_2003_Stang is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 08:47 AM   #16
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 4,373
@ Toms
~ $900 for my SIG P229 SAS Gen 2.
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 09:23 AM   #17
Billy Shears
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2011
Posts: 604
Quote:
There wasn't a hint of apology or that there was anything wrong. I called during a peak time so they were busy, but it was apparent at least to me that I wasn't the first person that called and that she had no desire to talk about it further. I'm not trying to be unfair, but in all honesty she was a tad rude while I was trying to mind my Ps and Qs.
That is precisely the experience I had when talking with Sig CS.

It was a nightmare and turned me off of the brand entirely. It will be a long time before I am willing to buy another Sig.

Hope it all works out for you.
Billy Shears is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 11:52 AM   #18
G. Freeman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 2001
Location: Walnut, California
Posts: 153
Yeah, the slide looks funky but at least it's in the inside. At least you know the slide is stainless so you won't really have any problems with corrosion. If it were my gun, I'd just leave it alone. Worse things can happen sometimes when a gun is sent back to the factory.
G. Freeman is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 11:57 AM   #19
Patriot86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,293
@Tunnel: Yeah I missed that part, I am shocked honestly that SIG won't fix that :-\ that is a freaking crying shame usually they are easy to deal with. My P226 looks nothing like yours, it has a complete finish...maybe you should try pushing with SIG again?
Patriot86 is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 12:17 PM   #20
Uncle Malice
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,637
I am also surprised by Sig's reaction, as I stated in a PM with TunnelRat.

I have a P220 Carry Elite Dark on layway, and rest assured, if I get the gun and it has those marks, I will be throwing one hell of "bitch-fit".

My other Sigs have all been great. I did notice a little bit of rainbowing on the inside of the slide of my P229 Equinox, but I was of the impression that was from heat treating or something like that... no gaps in the black.

TunnelRat, if it were me, I would push back on Sig to make this right. Try another rep and if they refuse, ask to speak with a supervisor. Keep going up the chain until someone makes this right. It's not a mechanical flaw that will cause any problem with functionality of the gun... but we also buy Sigs because they look good. They have(had?) quality workmanship and it shows. It's the same reason you buy a BMW over a Hyundai... both cars work.. but it's the details that matter. Don't let them brush you off. I'm pretty ashamed for Sig, myself, since I'm the one that suggested you give them a call. Don't let them get away with shoddy workmanship.
__________________
Glock 17 G4 FDE | Glock 21 G4 FDE | S&W M&P 22 | S&W M&P 45 | S&W M&P 40 | S&W M&P 9 | Sig P226 MK25 | Sig P229 Extreme | HK P30 | HK45 | HK USP 9 | USP 45 TACTICAL | Springfield Armory XDM 9 OD
Daniel Defense DDM4 V4 | Arsenal SGL 21 | ASA SBR | Savage Mark II FV-SR | Mossberg 590A1 20" SP | Mossberg 500 Cruiser
My Instagram (mostly gun pics)
Uncle Malice is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 02:30 PM   #21
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 4,373
@Uncle
In the grand scheme of things idk if it is worth it. When talking to Victoria on the phone it was pretty obvious that I was treading on waters best left alone. I am not sure calling again would get me anywhere, just in hot water if I actually ever do need a real repair.

My thoughts at this time are this: go back to the store where I bought and ask the SIG armorer that works there, great guy that I've dealt with before, what he thinks about it in terms of if it's worth complaining and if he thinks I'll get anywhere. He might even be willing to call for me. At this point I am pretty sure little old me isn't going to get anywhere. But if I can bring a rather large distributor for them and one of their own armorer's into the mix, maybe my chances are improved. If they still say no at that point, well, then I guess the worm will have turned so to say.
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 02:38 PM   #22
WVsig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2010
Location: KY
Posts: 3,046
Quote:
TunnelRat, if it were me, I would push back on Sig to make this right. Try another rep and if they refuse, ask to speak with a supervisor. Keep going up the chain until someone makes this right. It's not a mechanical flaw that will cause any problem with functionality of the gun... but we also buy Sigs because they look good. They have(had?) quality workmanship and it shows. It's the same reason you buy a BMW over a Hyundai... both cars work.. but it's the details that matter. Don't let them brush you off. I'm pretty ashamed for Sig, myself, since I'm the one that suggested you give them a call. Don't let them get away with shoddy workmanship.
It has been my personal experience in the last 3 years that Sig customer service is not going to do anything about this. I have spoken with their CS manager and even the VP of Commerical sales about a function issue with required a return trip to Exeter. The vibe I got was not a positive one. The vibe from top to bottom was "what do you want me to do about it?" When I said replace it they said no way.
__________________
"Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all..." Sam from Ronin
The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced. -Frank Zappa
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.-Frank Zappa
WVsig is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 03:36 PM   #23
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 4,373
I guess this begs the question of when is the cutoff point? What is the manufacturing date passed which some of you that feel that strongly wouldn't purchase a SIG? I saw a very nice SIG from 2006 in a LGS store the other day. I notice some of you mention the "Cohen era".
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 03:45 PM   #24
Uncle Malice
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,637
Cohen went to Sig in late 2004 I believe. It probably took at least a year for him to muck with the processes in place. 2005-2006 would probably be a close cut off point. Mid to late 90's Sigs are pretty spectacular.

I've been fortunate enough not to have problems with my newer ones... but I'm starting to see a lot of evidence of degradation.

My non-railed P229 is late 90's or early 2000's and it's excellent.
__________________
Glock 17 G4 FDE | Glock 21 G4 FDE | S&W M&P 22 | S&W M&P 45 | S&W M&P 40 | S&W M&P 9 | Sig P226 MK25 | Sig P229 Extreme | HK P30 | HK45 | HK USP 9 | USP 45 TACTICAL | Springfield Armory XDM 9 OD
Daniel Defense DDM4 V4 | Arsenal SGL 21 | ASA SBR | Savage Mark II FV-SR | Mossberg 590A1 20" SP | Mossberg 500 Cruiser
My Instagram (mostly gun pics)
Uncle Malice is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 07:08 PM   #25
seed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2004
Posts: 411
TR, you will find an old era Sig if you are persistent. And you will find some, like the P229 (pre-Cohen/back when Sig was excellent) for under $600 for examples shot less than 1000 rounds. You can even find all German 228's and 220's for good prices now and again. Just have the money ready for when they appear. I love my 90's Sigs. The craftmanship and attention to detail is amazing.
seed is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13880 seconds with 10 queries