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Old November 20, 2012, 12:08 PM   #26
mukibetser
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I own both striker fired and DA/SA. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer as to which is better. I completely understand why many people prefer the simplicity and greater consistency of a striker fired gun. I prefer DA/SA for the following reasons:

1. I've found that in tactical/self-defense pistol classes I am just more comfortable reholstering with my thumb on the back of the hammer. Yes, there should be no problem with a striker fired gun if you exercise proper technique and trigger discipline, but my control over the exposed hammer just gives me a greater measure of comfort.

2. I prefer the slightly heavier DA trigger pull on the first round, again for safety/peace of mind reasons. A five pound trigger pull on a holstered gun with no safety makes me slightly nervous. Yes, I know training is all important and tens of thousands of LEOs regulalry carry striker fired guns with no problem, but again the DA/SA system makes me more comfortable.

3. I am slightly less accurate with the first round fired DA as opposed to SA or a decent striker fired trigger, but still plenty accurate for combat/self-defense purposes, which is what I care about. I don't find the first DA trigger pull to be a problem whatsoever from a practical standpoint, and the subsequent 12 or 14 rounds SA are much better than your average striker fired gun.
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Old November 20, 2012, 12:13 PM   #27
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I hadn't realized there where was so much acrimony coming from striker fans.
I hadn't either until Gats opened up this post ... Wow!

I'm with you Gats ... DA/SA all the way.
The SA pull is so much nicer than that of a true DAO gun and still better than that of the 'light' trigger DA guns. Also the 1/2 cocked / 3/4 cocked guns that are commonly called DAO (that most everyone likes the trigger on) are really more like SA guns than DAO IMO and I agree with others, the trigger is a bit too light for preventing AD. Shoot them if you like but they're not for me.

DA/SA ... not a compromise, the best of both worlds!
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Old November 20, 2012, 12:18 PM   #28
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First, the guy who said Glocks are DA only is wrong and apparently understands nothing about striker action pistols.

Second, DAO only pistols are ridiculous.

Third, I like my DA/SA semi-autos. Nice to know I can make it go "bang" when needed, but like the SA trigger a lot better.
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Old November 20, 2012, 12:23 PM   #29
tahunua001
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For whatever reason?

Why not admit what you already know—that such dislike is a subjective expression of your preferences and not objective "truth" that covers what "everyone should use."

The DA/SA system isn't difficult to master. It isn't getting anyone killed. It is not "inferior," it's just different.

Folks who don't prefer most striker fired systems don't seem to trash them with the fervor that DA/SA is slammed with.
when has anyone ever trashed the DA/SA system? to me this sounds like a rant caused by one person's comments that has been taken completely out of context. striker versus hammer is one of the biggest handgun arguments out there right next to "plastic VS metal" and "G17 vs M9". I do not like DA/SA guns. why, you ask? because I don't want to have to take the time to exorcise my fingers so that a 12 pound trigger pull feels normal. I do not want to have to try to remember whether I'm packing hammer down or hammer back when I have a split second to defend myself, my family and my property.

does this mean that the DA/SA is a horrible system that has no place in firearms manufacture? no, of course not but for my purposes and tactics mindset it is not anything that I would use for concealed carry or home defense and it is the last gun that I would leave at home for wifey to defend herself with when I have plenty of striker fired guns that are point and shoot reliable without her having to figure out the difference between a SA trigger pull and DA trigger pull.

also as for truth and dislike, 100% of the discussions on this board center around personal tastes, what the heck does subjective preference vs absolute truth have to do with anything, 100% of the people that say that they don't like DA/SA are stating just that; they do not like them. it is the very same way that you have started this thread with a 100% subjective mindset and stated that you do like them therefore your argument of absolute truth is flawed and instantly rendered invalid. there are plenty of good striker fired guns out there and plenty of DA/SA, both can have identical track records for reliability, durability and technical support. the only thing that divides them is going to be personal preference since objective proof is rendered invalid do to empirical data canceling itself out.
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Old November 20, 2012, 12:32 PM   #30
Nathan
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So for you DA/SA guys ...How do fast doubles look? Mine would look like 1 shot through the target!

DAO, striker or SA....I can put 2 on target quick, but the few da/sa pistols I've shot gave me a whiff!

IMO, we would be best served by a hammer second strike DAO at 6-8lbs. Who's doing that?
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Old November 20, 2012, 12:34 PM   #31
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Bravo, Aarond.

I own SA, DA, and DA/SA pistols. They are all good. If there is one system you don't like and you are not satisfied with your performance with it, you don't have to buy it. But ragging on someone else because they can do something you can't do seems kind of bass ackwards to me.
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Old November 20, 2012, 12:34 PM   #32
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"Then I wouldn't imagine you're missing too many DA pulls now are you?" [TunnelRat]

Yuh got me.

Shot the group pictured below last week, rapidfire. S&W 45ACP Nightguard at 7 yards (21 feet). Maybe its time to go back to the DA/SA Sig ...and tighten up that 6-shot group.

Keep your powder dry.
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File Type: jpg S&W 45 ACP.jpg.JPG (37.3 KB, 22 views)
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Old November 20, 2012, 12:53 PM   #33
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I own both striker fired and DA/SA. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer as to which is better. I completely understand why many people prefer the simplicity and greater consistency of a striker fired gun. I prefer DA/SA for the following reasons:

1. I've found that in tactical/self-defense pistol classes I am just more comfortable reholstering with my thumb on the back of the hammer. Yes, there should be no problem with a striker fired gun if you exercise proper technique and trigger discipline, but my control over the exposed hammer just gives me a greater measure of comfort.

2. I prefer the slightly heavier DA trigger pull on the first round, again for safety/peace of mind reasons. A five pound trigger pull on a holstered gun with no safety makes me slightly nervous. Yes, I know training is all important and tens of thousands of LEOs regulalry carry striker fired guns with no problem, but again the DA/SA system makes me more comfortable.

3. I am slightly less accurate with the first round fired DA as opposed to SA or a decent striker fired trigger, but still plenty accurate for combat/self-defense purposes, which is what I care about. I don't find the first DA trigger pull to be a problem whatsoever from a practical standpoint, and the subsequent 12 or 14 rounds SA are much better than your average striker fired gun.
These are all excellent reasons for your preference.
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Old November 20, 2012, 01:00 PM   #34
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Shot the group pictured below last week, rapidfire. S&W 45ACP Nightguard at 7 yards (21 feet). Maybe its time to go back to the DA/SA Sig ...and tighten up that 6-shot group.
I love a nice revolver, good shooting!

Quote:
because I don't want to have to take the time to exorcise my fingers so that a 12 pound trigger pull feels normal.
It's usually more like 10 lbs, but I get your point. However, I think it's odd that people act like getting to that hand strength is a waste. I've found that getting my fingers and hands stronger, so that 12 lb pulls are managed easily enough, has also helped my shooting with rifles and other pistols with different actions. I seem to have more control.

Quote:
I do not want to have to try to remember whether I'm packing hammer down or hammer back when I have a split second to defend myself, my family and my property.
I can't ever imagine a situation where I am packing hammer back with a DA/SA pistol.
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Old November 20, 2012, 02:37 PM   #35
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I'm not sure what happy cloud I exist upon that allows me to take what I like and make the best of it without getting so defensive and angry about a subject.

My EDC is a Glock and I don't like Glocks, but I get along well with this pistol, I've detailed that in other posts. Been carrying it 4 years and have no plans to change. It's the only Glock I own and I hope to never own another.

My car gun (only comes with me when I'm headed somewhere that I am NOT ALLOWED to carry, so the "car gun" stays in the car in case it gets stolen) is a Ruger P-95. DA/SA. I'm perfectly happy with this pistol in it's role.

On the range, the Ruger P-95 isn't much fun. Boring reliability, combat-worthy trigger in SA mode, and a horrendously long pull in DA mode. I have no qualms about carrying this gun.

The 1st-to-2nd shot transition is REAL and a force to be reckoned with, but it's a fun exercise to practice double taps with it, transition and all.

It's a bad choice if you want to play any organized gun game, because you can't carry it cocked & locked so you must start with that long DA pull and make that transition. It's a handicap, pure & simple and anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

Even still, it has a place. I grew up in the 80s and DA/SA was all the rage. 1911 pistols were only viable for work if they were tuned by someone with the skills to make them run all the time. That wasn't the relaity for all guns I'm sure...but that was the mantra.

Why so many folks have to pigeon hole themselves in to one specific style, class, manual of arms, etc?! I'll never understand.

I'm a gun guy. I like guns. Mostly, I like handguns. All are welcome, some even get to stay.
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Old November 20, 2012, 03:16 PM   #36
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It's a bad choice if you want to play any organized gun game, because you can't carry it cocked & locked so you must start with that long DA pull and make that transition. It's a handicap, pure & simple and anyone who says otherwise is delusional.
Then I'm delusional. When I draw and fire from concealment at the range I don't notice the transition at all anymore. I fire, release to reset, and fire again. It's just automatic.

Quote:
Why so many folks have to pigeon hole themselves in to one specific style, class, manual of arms, etc?! I'll never understand.
Pigeon hole? Maybe. I think a lot of people hold to the idea that sticking with one manual of arms is easier in the long run. I tend to agree. As such I think it's normal to find people to defend their viewpoints. They made them for a reason.
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Old November 20, 2012, 03:53 PM   #37
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The only objective truth is that all Glocks are DAO.
I've seen more and more people over the years refer to firearms that use a partially-cocked striker as being DAO. Is this now considered correct? I've always only used the term "DAO" to refer to guns that cannot be cocked or partially cocked; the trigger fully cocks and releases the striker/hammer and the slide doesn't cock or partially cock the striker/hammer either.

I remember when Glocks first started to become popular it was well-known that the partially-cocked striker didn't fit into any previous category; it wasn't a SA, it wasn't a DA/SA, and it wasn't DAO. Glock itself calls it "Safe-Action", but I figured by now we'd have come up with a term more descriptive than just "striker-fired" (which doesn't specifically describe how the weapon is cocked) and more accurate than "DAO" (which the Glock technically isn't).
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Old November 20, 2012, 04:28 PM   #38
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Glock itself calls it "Safe-Action", but I figured by now we'd have come up with a term more descriptive than just "striker-fired" (which doesn't specifically describe how the weapon is cocked) and more accurate than "DAO" (which the Glock technically isn't).
From the best of my understanding. The BATF and IDPA qualify these as DAO so that is what most people refer to them as.

Even though it isn't true DAO.
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Old November 20, 2012, 04:32 PM   #39
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Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the info; I figured I was missing something.
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Old November 20, 2012, 04:33 PM   #40
Amsdorf
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The Glock can not be fired only by pulling the trigger. That's what DA is.

The Glock can only be fired after it is cocked, by pulling the slide back.

That is not what DA is.


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Old November 20, 2012, 04:40 PM   #41
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Don't like DA/SA?
Nope.

Does not mean you can't like it. Some people juggle geese..... not my thing.

Quote:
Why so many folks have to pigeon hole themselves in to one specific style, class, manual of arms, etc?! I'll never understand.

I stick with one system (mostly) becuase my resources are limited. If I had unlimited resources and time, I could maybe get as good as i think I need to be with one system ...... and then take up another. ....or not: it'd be my luck that when the Stuff would hit the Air Circulation Machine, my carefully cultivated muscle memory would pause to figure out which system we had on board today, and Sumdood would put my head on a stick.

YMMV.
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Old November 20, 2012, 04:53 PM   #42
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Actually had an interesting indecent at the range last night with our Boy Scouts. One of the scouts on the line had a misfire and raised his hand. I went over and he asked me how long he should wait before loading another round (good for him, he remembered his safety training). The gun was a DA/SA hammer set up. I told him to just point it at the target and squeeze the trigger again. It went bang the 2nd time no problem.
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Old November 20, 2012, 05:09 PM   #43
Crow Hunter
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The Glock can not be fired only by pulling the trigger. That's what DA is.

The Glock can only be fired after it is cocked, by pulling the slide back.

That is not what DA is.
With the BATF definition, Double Action only refers to what the trigger mechanism does.

The Double in the DA is that it both retracts and releases the striker/hammer. If it only performs a single action, releasing the striker hammer it is SA.

Even though the Glock striker is partially cocked by retracting the slide, the trigger mechanism still pulls the striker back and releases it. 2 actions, Double Action.

What is your definition of Double Action?
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Old November 21, 2012, 01:00 AM   #44
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I suppose I should be carrying my Sig P210-6, 1911 or Browning High Power, in single action only cocked and locked with some of the best trigger pulls of any handguns, or maybe my HKP7M8 or HkP9S with triggers that break like glass, or DA/SA Walther P88 or Walther P5 Compact or Walther P38 or Sig 239, or DAO Smith and Wesson or Ruger revolvers, instead I carry a Glock.

Even though it is dangerous to carry a handgun with too light a trigger pull it is pretty well known that a lighter trigger pull on a handgun or rifle leads to an easier path towards accuracy, although you can probably train yourself to be accurate with any trigger pull with enough practice.

Have heard anything over a five pound trigger pull is harder to shoot accurately and since the first DA trigger pull on most DA/SA handguns is more than that it seems reasonable that it will take a lot more training and practice to make that first shot accurate.

As the first shot in a defensive situation could mean the difference between life and death,,,,,,

Will admit the DA/SA handguns are probably some of the safest handguns from the standpoint of preventing an accidental discharge.....
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Old November 21, 2012, 01:03 AM   #45
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The only double/single auto I have is a Sig P220, everything else is a striker fired. While I love the Sig and would never part with it I still prefer the consistent trigger pull of my Glocks/S&W.
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Old November 21, 2012, 01:07 AM   #46
TunnelRat
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Have heard anything over a five pound trigger pull is harder to shoot accurately
I've heard that too. It's hilariously idiotic. So 5 lbs exact eh? What about 5.5, 6? What's the exact threshold when it becomes inaccurate? Not attacking you, but that principle drives me nuts.
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Old November 21, 2012, 01:15 AM   #47
PH/CIB
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I agree with you TunnelRat,,,so I quess what they are trying to say is the lighter the trigger pull the easier to shoot accurately and the heavier the trigger pull the harder to shoot accurately, with five pounds being sort of the median.

By the way although I walked a lot of point, I never had to search and crawl through any tunnels,,,if you did you must have nerves of steel and the courage to match.
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Old November 21, 2012, 01:22 AM   #48
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By the way although I walked a lot of point, I never had to search and crawl through any tunnels,,,if you did you must have nerves of steel and the courage to match.
No that was my family, not me. I give credit to the guys on the frontlines and thank you for your service.

And I can see 5 lbs being a happy median. My only concern is that some people seem to fixate on the trigger weight. They think they need to lighten it or whatever in order to be effective with it. Now I don't shoot 20 lb triggers, but a heavier weight doesn't concern me a ton. Getting my hands stronger was the best thing I ever did to make me a better shooter. A smooth trigger, now that I will fixate on.
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Old November 21, 2012, 01:54 PM   #49
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To further that point, I don't know when it occurred to me and became so obvious, but preventing a lot of trigger over-travel does wonderful things for my ability to shoot & adapt/enjoy a trigger. A good, working trigger stop (noting fully the danger associated with one in a defensive situation) is a wonderful thing on a handgun.
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Old November 21, 2012, 06:10 PM   #50
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Funny, I hear the same sort of rhetoric regarding DAO systems (those that don't like DAO claim that it is a "bad" system....and that DA/SA or SA is "superior"). True DAO is the ONLY trigger system that actually gives true consistency. However, I am not about to say that DAO is "superior". Whatever works for the individual is the "superior" system, be it DAO, DA/SA, SA.....or whatever.

Currently, I have two DA/SA pistols, one DAO auto and one DA/SA revolver. I am well practiced with all - and shoot all of them well. So, I see no need for esoteric arguments about which might be "better". Just my opinion, though.

My only hard and fast "requirement" for a trigger system is that it MUST allow the gun to be carried with a loaded chamber, but completely UN-cocked - NO exceptions. But, that is only my preference. It matters not to me what anyone else favors in this regard.
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